End Game Turntable suggestions


Hello all, looking for insights to help me narrow down to some core choices; I am open to new or preowned. My system details can be seen under my profile.

In summary I have significantly expanded my vinyl collection and as of now I am looking to purchase an end game turntable appropriate for my setup. As you can see I use Mola Mola Kaluga Monos, and I really like the Zesto Pre and Phonostages. I find the class D/tube pre combination very pleasing. 

I would appreciate suggestions for around $5-8K (table + arm), new or used. I will have separate budget for cartridge. One preferred option (but not must-have) is universal voltage, as I may move the unit to Europe later. My current vintage turntable (Project Perspective) is 22 years old, and while I don't know how to compare to something really amazing, I can say that my setup is lacking detail and bass. The tonearm is terrible to keep aligned. Based on visits to Axpona and Cap Audio Fest and other research, I am thinking of a few in my budget, but will really value your suggestions of other brands:

- Origin Live Sovereign

- VPI Signature

- SAM Sinner

- Thorens TD 1601 (semi automatic)

Visual appeal is important to me (which is why Technics 1200 is not on my list despite great reviews everywhere). I love the idea of set it and forget it DD tables, but unfortunately mostly out of my budget (eg VPI HW-40 going for abt 11K used)....

Sorry for the long post but my hope is this background and help solicit good suggestions. Thanks

 

musicmatters1206

I am the proud owner of a VPI HW 40 and I could not be happier with the table. It is significant, solid, sports a very heavy platter and plinth that add pitch black silence and fabulous low end performance. The 12 inch gimbal fat boy arm is a treat to use and makes my Van den Hull cartridge that much better. I anticipate the direct drive motor will give me trouble and service free performance for as long as I own it. There is no worry there. Plus VPI has been around for over 40 years. They are not going anywhere. If you have the budget it must be in your top two or three considered endgame table options. Good luck with whichever vinyl spinner you land on!

@pindac, it is another lesson that mass alone does not work. Certain materials are more prone to ringing, some are intrinsically better damped. Examples of the later are aluminum and most wood over a certain thickness. Panzerholtz is resin infused plywood. The layers have been dyed for aesthetic reasons. It makes great plinths and could even be used as a sub chassis in a suspended design. My turntable used a 1" thick aluminum sub chassis. I doubt it would sound any different if it were made out of panzerholtz.

Origin designs are fine. Unfortunately, the company has a reputation for bad service. It has come up on this site several times. 

@musicmatters1206 , No, it will not be fun. You will wind up listening to the one you like best and the other will just take up space and money. Put that money into a better turntable and cartridge The very best value in a less expensive table is the Thorens TD1600 followed by the RP10 and then on to the Sotas. If you want the ability to upgrade down the line Sota is an even better choice. The only time you need a second cartridge is to play 78's.  As often as you would play them swapping out the cartridge would be the most efficient way of going about it.

Manufacturing turntables and tonearms is not all that difficult. I have seen several very reasonable home spun units. Making them with intelligent design and aerospace precision is not so easy. This leads to an unfortunate number of enterprises that make rather poor gear. Any company that makes a unipivot arm is suspect. Some, like Clearaudio and Kuzma do it at the low end of their ranges to keep the price down. Some do it because it is child's play to make them. Graham and Basis arms are no longer unipivots they are bipivots. Outboard motors are another point of contention. Turntables with more than one platter are functionally a joke.  More bearings equal more noise. 

I heard a Kuzma Stabi S with the 4 points and it’s is a great combo. And you have a keeper tonearm in case you want to upgrade the tt in the future. 
Also I would look at the EAT turntables as they seem to be very well built. They benefit of the Pro-Ject expertise and factory facilities. Pro-Ject’ s boss is Jozefina Lichtenneger’s husband. 
 

@mijostyn Your description of a Densified Wood and in your case the reference to Panzerholz is quite limited in description and does not demonstrate where it separates as a Production Method to a Typical Reference to a Plywood. 

The Process used to produce a Phenolic Resin Densified Wood is using extreme compression multiple layer of a Veneer. The Veneers are to receive a specified  volume @ g/m2 of Phenolic Resin between each layer of Veneer in the Ply Assembly.

This is then compressed as an assembly to reduce the original thickness by 50%, a 1.4 mm Veneer will compress to approx' 0.7mm. 

The entire assembly is then Vacuum Treated (removes all air pockets from imperfections and the Woods Cell Structure, which will be filled with the flow of the Phenolic Resin).

There is also a process to administer a Heat Treatment.

Densified Woods are now with a Patent in place for more than 100 Years and the Production Technology and extended use of application for the product due to this has been an evolving R&D.

The Dynawood Brand for Densified Wood is one that has a selection of Colours as the Option, but this suits a particular industry, such as Knife Handles.

The statement made about the use of Aluminium and P'holz for the same role and having same impact is pure conjecture, if one took the time to review the Measurements as a result of Damping and Frequency response they could not so flippantly make such a statement. 

There are obvious differences between the effect the two materials will have to be anticipated as occurring, there is data to explain differences when discovered.   

The Link is a portal that is found from the most basic of Web Searches.

Another case in relation to your remarks of the 'Old Guard' getting it quite wrong in relation to what is required for modern military manoeuvres.

 

 

Stick with the BEST. The Thorens TD 1601 is my End Game TT. I'm 72, it's the only way to play.