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Indentical measurments = Identical performance?

I’ve been doing A LOT of thinking lately. In particular, about the importance of audio measurments for source components like DACs and CD players.

 

Let us first assume that we have 2 identical DACs or 2 identical CD players. You wouldn’t dare suggest that the same models sound inherently different, now would you? Well we can prove that the output of each device in this scenario is identical by doing a null test. We capature the output of the DACs and CD players and learn that their waveforms (let’s say a 30 second clip) are identical. The only time we might see a difference is in an engineering/manufacturing hiccup...and that is RARE considering we have globalization in the modern world today followed by quality control standards that are not necessarily difficult to get right.

 

And so, if put to practice, any 2 digital audio components that have similar enough measurements should sound identical. For example, a DAC with a SINAD or SNR or 120 dB vs one with a SINAD or SNR of 123. Tiny differences in linarity and frequency response above 20 KHz are not audible to us humans anyway.

Because most of our listening dare not go up to 110 dB, which is the threshold of discomfort. You could only listen for up to about 30 minutes at this level without risking hearing loss! For this reason, the ideal listening level is below that!

 

Should we forget about what companies try to sell us as high-end and focus purely on measurements with respect to accurately reproducing digital audio?

 

Here’s what’s really funny. The Chord DAVE performed worse with respect to measurments than the Chord Hugo TT2! Just see audio science review.

 

Lastly, I consider ASR the best objective website on the internet, bar none. Because if Amir really had a business relationship with any of these audio companies, their flagship or most expensive products would always perform at the very top; we see that is not the case and measured performance is all over the place!

 

Looking forward to hearing from you guys. Let’s not turn this discussion into a flame war. If you disagree with what I’ve written, just tell me why. I will investigate.

 

 

jackhifiguy
rbstehno
1,406 posts
 

Who listens to asr? Measurements don’t tell you how it sounds. What is the sq difference of a dac with .005 distortion vs .0003? Good luck. Stereophile is the worst on producing bad measurements and reviewers love the sound. I never look at measurements of a dac before purchasing, I use my ears

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slantgut
16 posts
 

Any competently designed DAC should nail SINAD and frequency response measurements.  That's why, on cursory listening, DACs sound the same. Only on a sufficiently resolving system/room with extended sessions will the subtle differences between DACs or similarly measuring amplifiers become apparent. You have to know the recording and you have to spend some time.  There is a lot that can go awry when reconstructing the analog waveform from 1s and 0s and if you listen, those differences will reveal themselves.  All IME and IMHO of course.

moto_man
323 posts
 

I understand both sides of the issue.  Objectivists posit that if it can't be measured, then it doesn't exist.  There is a certain logic to the notion that what we hear is a function of the measurements of a piece of equipment, or that one cable sounds different because it measures differently in some way.  Subjectivists posit that measurements are irrelevant, and that all that matters is your subjective impression of the equipment. Subjectivist opinions are therefore . . . subjective. Some will have one impression of something, others will have a different impression.

I think that there is merit to measurements but it is clearly not the be-all and end-all.  There are so many factors, such as other equipment, speakers, room acoustics, cables, power, sources, etc. that it seems that subjective analysis is the only way to decide whether a piece of equipment is good for you.  How does one measure depth and width of soundstage, for example?  How does one measure the fact that one piece of equipment has an almost 3D presentation in space while another is more 2D? Logically, if it sounds different, it should measure different. But I don't think that there is a true correlation between how a piece of equipment sounds and how it measures.  so, bottom line, identical measurements do not mean identical performance.

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