Amir and Blind Testing


Let me start by saying I like watching Amir from ASR, so please let’s not get harsh or the thread will be deleted. Many times, Amir has noted that when we’re inserting a new component in our system, our brains go into (to paraphrase) “analytical mode” and we start hearing imaginary improvements. He has reiterated this many times, saying that when he switched to an expensive cable he heard improvements, but when he switched back to the cheap one, he also heard improvements because the brain switches from “music enjoyment mode” to “analytical mode.” Following this logic, which I agree with, wouldn’t blind testing, or any A/B testing be compromised because our brains are always in analytical mode and therefore feeding us inaccurate data? Seems to me you need to relax for a few hours at least and listen to a variety of music before your brain can accurately assess whether something is an actual improvement.  Perhaps A/B testing is a strawman argument, because the human brain is not a spectrum analyzer.  We are too affected by our biases to come up with any valid data.  Maybe. 

chayro

A blind listening test is not a test for bias.
It shows that listening under those conditions is mostly more difficult, but it does not explain WHY it is more difficult.

I’m unclear on what you are saying. On your account: What about "listening" is "more difficult" under blind test conditions?

 

Also, why would Amir not be biased himself? Maybe he does not want to hear (or accept) a difference?

Especially when it comes to vetting a controversial technical claim for audible differences, Amirm’s sighted impressions are no more reliable in of themselves than anyone else’s.

That’s why in principle anyone who BELIEVES he hears a difference could test themselves (using blind testing to help rule out sighted bias).

That said, Amirm’s sighted impressions are at least backed up pretty heavily by the objective evidence he presents. Unlike the usual audiophile anecdote or audiophile marketing.

 

Also, as we still not completely sure WHY we experience differences in cables, who is to say he is even measuring the right parameters? What if our brain can detect the differences? How will we measure that?

To be clear: I am not saying he is wrong, but I am suggesting that there are too many questions left unanswered to conclude that he is right.

By that measure you couldn’t establish any conclusion!

The best we ever have is what the evidence suggests.

First of all, we can test whether your "brain" can detect any differences via blind testing. If sighted bias and knowledge are ruled out, and you are ONLY able to use your hearing and you can not reliably detect a difference between A and B, then it’s reasonable to assume you aren’t detecting any difference.

This is how standard audiograms/audio tests work for hearing, right? If you can’t reliably detect tones over 12k, guess what? You can’t hear over 12k even if you CLAIM to or believe you can or not.

Similarly all sorts of tests have been done to establish the parameters of most of our senses, including hearing. Once you are down to a certain level of distortion, nobody has shown they can reliably detect it hence no reason to think we can hear it. It follows that if you measure a device and the distortion levels in various relevant parameters don’t rise above the known audible threshholds, then the reasonable conclusion is "that distortion is not audible."

We aren’t beholden to any person’s claim to have Super Human Hearing..unless they can demonstrate it in similar controlled tests.

The engineering involved, the principles on which USB cables are designed, tells us that any competently designed USB cable will transmit the 1s and 0s just fine, especially when used with a competently designed DAC.  And that heroic measures beyond that are rarely needed (and in any case, would be unlikely to be responsible for the sonic claims made on behalf of those cables).

Amirm tested for ANY way the Nordost cable altered the signal, looking for any relevant distortions, and there was nothing relevant to distinguish it’s performance from a cheap amazon cable. Before someone says "But we can HEAR the difference so maybe he’s measuring the wrong thing" you should be able to DEMONSTRATE you can hear the difference to take that claim seriously. And that would be under conditions controlling for your knowledge of which USB cable is being used. Otherwise it’s just begging the question.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amir does us all a great service with his site and all the testing. I rarely find fault with any of his useful illustrations. Go Amir!

The problem with Amir is what comes after the measurements. I want to know what he found but when he begins the inevitable explanation of how anything beyond 20-20K and below -60dB can't possibly be heard--I start wetting my pants.

I know that's MY problem but it's a cause/effect that limits watching him.

Why do you start wetting your pants? There are some people, mostly young girls, who hear >20khz but I doubt anyone on this forum can. 

Regarding the PS "review." Science is based on replication and peer review.  If the  output used didn't measure correctly, why wouldn't a site with "science" in their name not test another outlet to verify results?  It's lazy.  Or reach out to the company and ask them about the different outlets.  I don't use Powerplants, so I can't comment on whether the manual is lacking information or not. Maybe the support forums clarify best use practices?  These are sophisticated products, and not necessarily plug and play.  

I reached out to the designer of my power conditioner to inquire about a few things, and I'm end end user, not a "reviewer."  

If someone wants to be seen as a legit source of unbiased information, they need to do the work to gain that level of respect, and a fake science site that (I believe) is also an audio dealer, is not that.