Are there speakers that disappear regardless of the recording?


I have a pair of B&W 805d3’s. Strictly analog system. Source is the Clearaudio Ovation, Hana SL cart. Herron VTPH-2A phono stage. Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II integrated amp. The speakers sound great most of the time. I have many records that cause the speakers to essentially disappear with a holographic sound stage, beautiful imaging and great dynamics. Some other records, not so much. Curious if there’s a way to achieve disappearing speakers no matter what recording you throw at them? Thanks!

paulgardner

It varies. As for those whose speakers throw a wide, deep soundstage, I’ve heard such speakers. They are wonderful but they also lack some of the precision in other speakers. From my experience, which is limited compared to many, a narrower sweet spot is compensated by more precise imaging in the soundstage. Some don’t prefer that. I kinda like it.

Oh, and that comment about needing a good (or well treated) room to do this? Absolutely. 1000% key.

What a great question!

In my experience some speakers 'disappeared' a little more than others.

My Tannoy Berkeley's don't disappear at all.

OK, they're better with some recordings than others, but I'm guessing a large wooden box made in the 1970s is never going to vanish completely.

I'm guessing it's something to do with both construction and presentation. Harbeth, for one, claim that the panel resonances in their speakers lie beneath the threshold of hearing.

And they have data to back themselves up.

However, unless a speaker is omnidirectional, I'm again guessing that you will always know the sound is coming from a pair of transducers.

 

@zgas-music ,

Closing my eyes is a must for me if I want to even get close.

Totally agree with @zgas-music 

But there is a lot to be said for getting the speaker-room interaction as correct as possible.

NO. It’s all about the source.

Assuming your speakers are doing a terrific job of presenting imaging from superlatively recorded/produced recordings, thus ’disappearing’ within the sound stage, like your B&W’s do now:

the speakers ’disappear’ because they become instruments within a wide soundstage, the phantom center and phantom off center being present in the imaging are a large part of why the speaker’s disappear.

as you progressively reduce the effective skill of recording/producing, the speaker’s progressively reappear.

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balance:

some very involving recordings, the balance is a speck off, a very small tweak to proper balance makes a large difference, everything, not just center get’s refined. best is remote balance from listening position.

note: it might be something in your system causing an inadvertent, perhaps inconsistent minor balance imperfection. My vintage McIntosh jacks were corroded, and very slightly undersized. move one cable, it disturbs another, .... Audio Classics changed all the jack panels to new gold plated, AND, I changed to locking RCA’s on my inter-connects. I think one of the benefits for short runs of XLR is they also are locking.

I still find tracks that benefit from a small tweak, most often on compilations where many different engineers/producers are involved.

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mono was mentioned.

I used to use Mono mode on my McIntosh Preamp, but still used my Stereo Cartridge.

I took advice here, glad I did. recording teams, equipment and techniques were surprisingly good before stereo came along.

Vinyl: the best is a mono cartridge, mono lp, mono mode, played thru only 1 speaker. then listen from anywhere. do NOT let your habit of seeking imaging get involved.

Some are only minor improvements, some quite a lot.

Mono is horizontal vibration info only, mono cartridge has no output of any vertical movement. Stereo cartridge will find/pick up/make noise from any inadvertent vertical movement, warp, dust, ,,, there is more than you would think. It smears the content with noise. One speaker, some noise, two speakers, double the noise.

I have a compilation LP, mono, early Chicago jazz. Played stereo cartridge, even via mono mode, it is far from involving, just a history lesson, probably never play again. played with my true mono cartridge, even both speakers, it becomes an involving experience you will want to replay. not imaging, but the distinction of individual instruments is there. played mono/mono/1 speaker, even more involving/instrument distinction.

Count yourself lucky.  You must have a nice sounding system.  You might consider adding a pair of REL SHO subwoofers.  Their high-level connection allows them to play like woofers.  The trick is to dial them in until you cannot detect them.  I have a source where you can buy them brand new for about half the price.  If interested, I could let you know my source only if you do not divulge the source. 

I have noticed some recordings produce more db at the same volume settings.  I am not sure why.  I often have to adjust the volume on my amplifier downward.  Perhaps this also reduces distortion?  Certain recordings just sound better.  I have a number of recordings I play to show off my sound system.