Why the hate for mcintosh amps?

@runwell

You did answer my question and gave me a little more insight as to where you are coming from. Thank you.  I would agree that Macs are aggressive in the bass. Not so much on the 275 but I do hear it on the SS amps. I also have heard amps that are faster and tighter than they are. So, I think I get why they would not be to your liking. However, as with any amp pair it with right speaker and it weakness can become a strength.

I listen to the 452 mated with a pair of B&W 801’s I really liked the sound from that pairing. I also enjoyed them with Maggie’s and Focal’s too. As with all things audio though, this is a matter of my personal taste.

As to realism, I never found any brand that reproduced a recording to the point it fooled me into thinking I was present in the studio or at a concert. I actually abandoned that goal a while ago and focus on things that I find fun to listen to versus overall accuracy. Greatly appreciate you sharing a bit of yours audio journey with us, and providing a list of the equipment you are using. Deeply respect your view on ARC and the differences you are hearing. What you achieved with your system is no small feat.  I think synergy at the level you obtained is a goal lot of us are hard pressed to achieve.  I am also look at the Ref 6SE as a replacement for an aging but still working Sonic Frontiers Line One. I auditioned it for about three weeks and loved what it could do. 

@ walkertm

Thanks for your high comment on my listen experience. I just told what I think for my listening,and I do think it is important that we dare to say the real feeling,no matter which brand or which specific amp. As a forums,lot of people get the information when they do not have the chance to demo listen due to some limitation. So Do not demand it is 100% correct but your true feeling. Listening is a subjective activity and you do have different opinions with others,it is normal,and when you listen more and more,you finally find your personal taste,where you can enjoy the music. and different people in the different position of the whole procedure,and when we share the opinion without business motivation is  very helpful.

I’m curious how many folks have owned McIntosh amps and ‘upgraded’ to another brand.  
 

When I think of my hobbies (or more accurate vices) -motorcycles, cars, wine, beer and whiskey. My experiences impacted future buying decisions. 
 

I thought my NAD system was my first high end audio system. And upgraded to McIntosh the sound was different and from my point of view improved.  
 

I know listen differently and auditioning for an upgrade will include alternatives because l believe I value different characteristics than when I bought NAD and McIntosh. Effectively McIntosh was valuable due to my enjoyment and growth. 

Seems the new, yet to be shipped c12000 preamp is inexpensive/cheap ($16k) compared to other 2 chasis preamps. Is this high end?

would prefer a linestage. Ss vs tube feature is cool.

better choices out there?

@emergingsoul It depends, Many consider McIntosh to be pricey Mif-Fi. I do not.They have a house sound that they cling to, and if you enjoy it that is all that matters. Build quality wise, it top tier and you be able to easily find a dealer in many parts of the country.

Even so, before investing in the Mac listen to a few other things as well. Then develop your preferences and know what you are getting into. Mac Tube pre-amps are pretty neutral and have a sound akin to a SS amp. If able try and audition Preamps in both camps.SS realm try a Hegel, Michi, Classe,Pass Labs, Mark Levingson, then move to Tube designs from Cary, Rogue, Conrad Johnson, BAT, VTL, Prima Luna, ARC, Zesto Audio are a few suggestions, This list can be paired down by what is available in your area, Whatever you do do not buy the Mac without hearing what else is out there. Also do not get hung up as to whether or not the power supply is separate. Advantages yes, but there are single chassis designs that have great isolation as well. The BAT I am auditioning now and the Zesto Audio I auditioned before have built in ones it are still very quiet. Which is the main advantage that a separate power supply offers in a component.

I suggest your primary goal should be finding something you enjoy listening to first.