william53, I think that is what I have been trying to tell you. Unless you want to go for an ESL with subwoofers, the best you can do with dynamic drivers is a two way system with subwoofers. It is easier to control and engineer a passive two way crossover than it is to control and engineer the mechanical crossover you have in these so called full range loudspeakers. Anything with a whizzer cone is not full range, it is two way. The crossover is mechanical as the whizzer cone becomes decoupled from the woofer/midrange cone. The ESL is the only truly full range driver but it still IMHO requires subwoofers. An ESL will do 28Hz to 20 kHz but removing 100Hz down cleans up the sound so much that you are better off crossing to subs. I cross at 120 Hz. Above that it is all one way. Not that everything is perfectly rosy, it is not. There are two transformers, several resistors and caps involved between the amps and the ESL panel.
A full range speaker?
Many claim to be, but how many can handle a full orchestra’s range?
That range is from 26hz to around 12khz including harmonics, but the speakers that can go that low are few and far between. That is a shame, since the grand piano, one of the center points of many orchestral and symphonic performances, needs that lower range to produce a low A fully, however little that key is used.
I used to think it was 32hz, which would handle a Hammond B-3’s full keyboard, so cover most of the musical instruments range, but since having subs have realized how much I am missing without those going down to 25hz with no db’s down.
What would you set as the lower limit of music reproduction for a speaker to be called full range?
I’m asking you to consider that point where that measurement is -0db’s, which is always different from published spec's.
That range is from 26hz to around 12khz including harmonics, but the speakers that can go that low are few and far between. That is a shame, since the grand piano, one of the center points of many orchestral and symphonic performances, needs that lower range to produce a low A fully, however little that key is used.
I used to think it was 32hz, which would handle a Hammond B-3’s full keyboard, so cover most of the musical instruments range, but since having subs have realized how much I am missing without those going down to 25hz with no db’s down.
What would you set as the lower limit of music reproduction for a speaker to be called full range?
I’m asking you to consider that point where that measurement is -0db’s, which is always different from published spec's.
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Anything with a whizzer cone is not full range
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No indeed, it is not, There is some roll off in the lows/highs. But I can tell you , this lil 4 incher packs a nice lil kick in the upper bass. and highs are not so rolled off, at least for classical music, For jazz, yeah you want more of the shimmer and glitz on top end. I am using it more of a upper bass - upper mids driver. The W18's now at 10uf go up to 1600hzish and so there is a huge overlap with the W18 and 4 inch whizzer, The 4 goesc down to say 100hzish. As i say has some punch for a lil guy Highs aint too shabby either. Vocals accurate, Stress/distortion glares in full orch explosions/huge chorus. But livable. I think folks need to be aware the whizzer full range is onlya LIMITED wide band, Not a FULL range. Again, for my tastes in orch, its more full rich ofa image vs a 1 inch dome tweeter. I'd a whizzer cone can be considered full range as in the sense 90% of the music is voiced by the driver. A better name for these drivers is a 90./ Other **full range** were not even 90% More like 70% of the fq's voiced. making these lower Q drivers , near worthless for my usage/intentions. Lii fast 8 old model 70% DavidLouis Diatone 6.5 70%. The Vox was even lower. |
@myjostyn I am not looking for a solution, I can build bass horns that go down to 20 hz, and will shake my family room off of my house. How to get there is not the question, it is: What do you consider full range as a definition of a speaker catagory? Because it is term that is used without any definition of what the term means. As far as I can see it's just a marketing term. I'd just like to find out what people consider that to be, so we can establish some sort of credible definition. |
Geez, a lot of academic mumbo jumbo in this thread. I have spent countless hours listening to full sized speakers with a -3db point between 22 Hz and 40 Hz. Without question, the lower extension speakers have dramatically out performed over enough of my listening list that it is important. Of course, sometimes 40 Hz is all you need, but there is plenty of music that plums the lower depth. I have had Revel Salons, Thiel CS5s and CS7.2s in my listening room at the same time to compare along with less bass proficient speakers to compare. It makes a significant difference. |
Yes. Suppose I framed it differently. Have you ever had bookshelf or stand mount speakers that you consider full range? If you spend enough, of course you can buy full range speakers. But some decent ones can be had for under $3k The term full range speakers is not the same as full range drivers, which is a separate category. I failed to make that clear in the beginning. One definition from the web, of which there are many: "The term “Full-Range” connotes the speaker that covers the entire range of the human voice. Most full-range speakers have a low frequency of around 60-70 Hz. Larger units with 15” drivers will reach low frequencies, while those of 10” LF drivers or less will roll off closer to 100 Hz." Here is one example of a dictionary of audiophile terms, I’ll look for others. https://www.moon-audio.com/audiophile-terms-guide#F |
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