“Assist” is the operative word. The electronic tuner is used primarily as a reference; usually in order tune middle C and then the middle octave. This becomes your reference. After that the technician’s ears come into play. If one relies entirely on what the electronic tuner tells you, the result will be a piano that sounds out of tune. Octaves in particular are impossible to make sound right with an electronic tuner and adjustments must be made by ear. Humans tend to hear low pitches higher than they actually are and high pitches lower than they actually are in reflexive attempt by the brain and to try and bring what we hear within the range of the human voice; so, fine adjustments must be made by ear. No electronic device can do what the trained human ear can do.
The Placebo Effect
One of the things that should be taken into account in the evaluation of audio equipment, tweaks, etc is the Placebo Effect.
In the medical world, Placebos (open label or concealed) appear to mostly work on subjective symptoms, such as pain. They don’t work on an objective symptom — something a doctor could see or diagnose, such as a fracture on a bone. Placebos don’t shrink tumors, they don’t change your diabetes, and they’re not going to actually lower your blood pressure for more than 15 minutes, Basically, placebos appear to work on things that pass through the brain’s perceptual systems — where they can prompt the release of opioids and other endorphins (chemicals that reduce pain) in the brain. Bottom line, placebos can result in perceived improvement even where no actual improvement exists.
The same applies to our hobby. Probably too often, we sense improvement in SQ because of the Placebo Effect. Our money spent, hardware bias's, effective marketing, or being influenced by the experience of others (regardless if true), often have us believe that we have obtained improvements that don't really exist. This is not necessarily a bad thing because a perceived improvement, whether real or imagined is still an improvement to the listener. This may explain part of why certain "improvements" can't be measured.
J.Chip
In the medical world, Placebos (open label or concealed) appear to mostly work on subjective symptoms, such as pain. They don’t work on an objective symptom — something a doctor could see or diagnose, such as a fracture on a bone. Placebos don’t shrink tumors, they don’t change your diabetes, and they’re not going to actually lower your blood pressure for more than 15 minutes, Basically, placebos appear to work on things that pass through the brain’s perceptual systems — where they can prompt the release of opioids and other endorphins (chemicals that reduce pain) in the brain. Bottom line, placebos can result in perceived improvement even where no actual improvement exists.
The same applies to our hobby. Probably too often, we sense improvement in SQ because of the Placebo Effect. Our money spent, hardware bias's, effective marketing, or being influenced by the experience of others (regardless if true), often have us believe that we have obtained improvements that don't really exist. This is not necessarily a bad thing because a perceived improvement, whether real or imagined is still an improvement to the listener. This may explain part of why certain "improvements" can't be measured.
J.Chip
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- 78 posts total
Frogman, modern tuners are much more sophisticated than what you describe. They have been for 10 or more years. They are not perfect, but they are very good. Like any tool they are more effective in the hands of a skilled used. I would provide a more detailed response, but I need to work on accounting. Given I have to use pen and paper, it will take me a long time. I would use a calculator or spreadsheet but that would be a tell. A tell of what I have no idea. I wonder what psychologists would say about that. |
@sugabooger....*L* They'd say you need an Rx for whatever 'it' may be....at least ITho, and book you for a week later for the hour.... It's not that you're 'interesting', mind you....gotta pay for the Benz... ;) There are tuners: Great ones, and the not so. The latter are not bad, mind one, but....not prone to subtle. Much like the mech that can hear an F1 slot car or GP bike a half mile away... ...and Know what's Wrong. I don't doubt that among us and elsewhere, there are those that have that in their ears and mind. The rest of us fill in the spectrum...pick your place. *s* ;) @twoleftears ....*S* Thanks for the Voltaire....and what's old is still considered 'new', and hard to find in the original printing. *L* But the suggestion lead me to: https://www.brainpickings.org/ ...which is a better waste of network time....than even here. *G* |
sugarbooger (and I thought MY moniker was odd 😊), if you were read my post carefully you’d note that I wrote nothing about the quality of tuners, or the improvements that have been made in recent years; I assure you that I know all about it. While my instrument is not piano, I have been in the presence of professional piano tuners while they do their thing literally hundreds of times over the years and I have spoken to a several. Not one relies entirely on the tuner without making final adjustments by ear in order for the instrument to sound correct. That was my point and only point. Again, as I wrote previously and as always, when it comes to musical matters the trained human ear is more sensitive than any electronic device. |
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