@thecarpathian
Thanks for the laugh! Then again, you say bubkas, I say bupkis...
Thanks for the laugh! Then again, you say bubkas, I say bupkis...
What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?
Douglas Self wrote a devastating article about audio anomalies back in 1988. With all the necessary knowledge and measuring tools, he did not detect any supposedly audible changes in the electrical signal. Self and his colleagues were sure that they had proved the absence of anomalies in audio, but over the past 30 years, audio anomalies have not disappeared anywhere, at the same time the authority of science in the field of audio has increasingly become questioned. It's hard to believe, but science still cannot clearly answer the question of what electricity is and what sound is! (see article by A.J.Essien).
For your information: to make sure that no potentially audible changes in the electrical signal occur when we apply any "audio magic" to our gear, no super equipment is needed. The smallest step-change in amplitude that can be detected by ear is about 0.3dB for a pure tone. In more realistic situations it is 0.5 to 1.0dB'". This is about a 10% change. (Harris J.D.). At medium volume, the voltage amplitude at the output of the amplifier is approximately 10 volts, which means that the smallest audible difference in sound will be noticeable when the output voltage changes to 1 volt. Such an error is impossible not to notice even using a conventional voltmeter, but Self and his colleagues performed much more accurate measurements, including ones made directly on the music signal using Baxandall subtraction technique - they found no error even at this highest level.
As a result, we are faced with an apparently unsolvable problem: those of us who do not hear the sound of wires, relying on the authority of scientists, claim that audio anomalies are BS. However, people who confidently perceive this component of sound are forced to make another, the only possible conclusion in this situation: the electrical and acoustic signals contain some additional signal(s) that are still unknown to science, and which we perceive with a certain sixth sense.
If there are no electrical changes in the signal, then there are no acoustic changes, respectively, hearing does not participate in the perception of anomalies. What other options can there be?
Regards.
For your information: to make sure that no potentially audible changes in the electrical signal occur when we apply any "audio magic" to our gear, no super equipment is needed. The smallest step-change in amplitude that can be detected by ear is about 0.3dB for a pure tone. In more realistic situations it is 0.5 to 1.0dB'". This is about a 10% change. (Harris J.D.). At medium volume, the voltage amplitude at the output of the amplifier is approximately 10 volts, which means that the smallest audible difference in sound will be noticeable when the output voltage changes to 1 volt. Such an error is impossible not to notice even using a conventional voltmeter, but Self and his colleagues performed much more accurate measurements, including ones made directly on the music signal using Baxandall subtraction technique - they found no error even at this highest level.
As a result, we are faced with an apparently unsolvable problem: those of us who do not hear the sound of wires, relying on the authority of scientists, claim that audio anomalies are BS. However, people who confidently perceive this component of sound are forced to make another, the only possible conclusion in this situation: the electrical and acoustic signals contain some additional signal(s) that are still unknown to science, and which we perceive with a certain sixth sense.
If there are no electrical changes in the signal, then there are no acoustic changes, respectively, hearing does not participate in the perception of anomalies. What other options can there be?
Regards.
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All of of you need to spend some time on a psych ward just to see some brains that are really not working right. This is neuro-psychiatry leading you all around by the nose.Coming and insulting people in their communicating thread with NO REASON save our own prejudices and ignorance is something... Are you the same arrogant man at work? You can not depend on what you and other people hear for these type of analyses. There are hundreds of psychiatric variables you can not control this way. In order to indicate anything these types of tests have to be controlled if they are not they mean babkas.Nobody sells nothing here you are in the wrong thread...We dont sell "tweaks"... And the experiments described are controlled by the ears pertaining to those with Anton who had LEARNED how to perceive and described it with the right directed wired tubes amplifiers... An " horse with blinders" calling others by words like "delusion" like in psychiatric vocabulary, using wrong premise and false attribution in the second step of a simple logical deduction is not a good adviser: --All audible perception are measured ONLY in Db (which is false for example in the case of the timbre perception evaluation where other factors are at play) -- The effects of a changing of the direction in the wire is an " electro magnetic" process change, indiscernible, because measured in micro Db out of the range of human hearing... ( which is an assumption falsely attributed to Anton who says he has excluded this physical known E.M. change in the wire already for explanation from the beginning of his thread ) -- THEN all wiring direction experiments are false... (the conclusion is blatently a sophism) If you really want to improve the performance of your system and learn what you are doing in the process get one of these and get down with it. Finally your perpetual advise to use an electronical equalizer for the speakers response WITHOUT being conscious of the LIMITATIONS of this type of equalization, versus for example the mechanical equalization of the room response, and proposing arrogantly something that had no relation anyway with the issue discussed here, show himself not only his prejudices but at least his stubborn narrow way or at worst plain stupidity...Pick the convenient one... The same nonsense permeates the "tweak" world.Amalgamating this Anton experiment or any other experiment in audio to be only a "tweak" reveal a despise of all audiophiles which speak volume about you... A question for you, which is a "tweak" here for example : a mechanical method to equalize a room inherited from Helmholtz and based on psychoacoustic laws you ignore or your consumerist proposition to buy a cheap or a costly electronical equalizer for tuning the speakers response instead, which could never be a complete solution to the acoustic room problem by itself, but only a helpful secondary tool at best ? The question clearly stated contain the answer.... 😁 Then look at yourself in a mirror.... This thread is not a medical assembly of your future patients nor audiophiles waiting your paternalist "solution" or miraculous cure for all problem: an electronic equalizer .... Discussing is being open first, listening, second, thinking, third and four being polite.... It is not necessary to be intelligent at each step but it is better to be before speaking.... «When someone propose an experiment, and if it is not the experience of jumping from the Niagara river, decency propose to keep an open mind; no advise is needed either if it is not related in any way to the proposed experiment itself but the reflection of our own prejudices»- Written in front of Groucho Marx audio room laboratory 🤓 |
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anton_stepichev, I fully understand your comment, i.e. " I only noticed that it is impossible to locate the exact reason of the directivity with its help. We can’t directly hear the RF signals, and even if we could, speakers can’t play them back. So we need to look for the real reason not in the RF area, that’s what I meant. " I believe, that when a Cable exhibits Directionality to RF signals, that it would also exhibit Directionality to audio signals, & Vice Versa!. The method that I outlined provides Documentation that a specific Cable Design exhibits or does not exhibit such Directionality to RF Signals. Think about all of the harmonics & sub harmonics of the 60 HZ line frequency that is all around audio equipment. It's likely that some cables pick up this noise, which is then further amplified in downstream amplification stages & may well be heard, with some Cable designs. Then there is the host of digital signals & their sub harmonics that proliferate in this digital world we live in today, that may have to be dealt with. Yes, it boggles the mind & Audio Needs all the help it can MUSTER TO PROVIDE THAT ULTIMATE SOUND QUALITY that all here strive for. Note that some here go as far as isolating & raising speaker wires off of the ground, with sworn improvements in sound quality. |
All of of you need to spend some time on a psych ward just to see some brains that are really not working right. Thank you, Doctor. https://youtu.be/pGtGEI_I4kw?t=29 |
@mijostyn You will not find anything useful with the microphone, because when you reverse the wire, there is no change in the electrical signal at the speaker terminals. As for linearity, its value is greatly exaggerated. There is absolutely no need to make the linearity of the system with an accuracy of 0.3 db, much less 0.1 db. If it was so important for perception, we would not be able to enjoy listening to cassette recorders, receivers, and so on. By our nature we automatically adapt to changes in the frequency response within a wide range, this is how our perception works. Adaptation to changes takes a few tens of seconds, after that we get used to the new reality and the new frequency response becomes "transparent" for us, it does not interfere and does not help us to perceive music, it just becomes a kind of reference point, relative to which we perceive sounds.. This statement is easy to verify, if you have timbre controls in the system, turn the controls a bit, spend 10 minutes listening calmly and analyzing impressions, make a conclusion. And do not forget that the linearity of our hearing changes depending on the volume - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness. Why do you set up a system with an accuracy of 0.1 db if with a small enough change in system volume, the linearity of your hearing changes by several DB? Isn't it stupid? |
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