I've seen it happen quite often! I'm sure some might make it but you would be lucky indeed to see any cartridge last 30 years!
Life After Technics SL1200 Mk5
Hi All,
i am starting the hunt for a new turntable and what to hear from past owners of Technics TT's.
My first real turntable was a Luxman PD272 with a Shure V15 Type IV cartridge, both of which I wore out. Given it was my formative years, I loved that set-up. I acquired my Technics 1200 Mk5 about ten years ago after a long journey down the digital fork in the road.
Due to some technical furniture issues and WAF, I had to set the TT aside, again. I have rolled through various digital gear and currently use a PS Audio PWT and Theta ProBasic III R2R ladder DAC.
Anyway...I set up the Technics again with an AT150 MLX cartridge and....lo and behold...the digital setup, while not possessing that vinyl sound, does sound better than the SL1200 and AT150.
I did not want to believe this, so I reinstalled the cartridge and realigned the table. Same resort. Basically, the sound is a bit tilted to the treble, the bass is a bit thin compared to my digital gear, and the overall sound seems lean.I have fiddled with cartridge tracking and tonearm balance with no improvement.
So what is next? Is it I do not like the AT cartridge? Has my digital gear outgrown my TT?
That is why I want to learn about the experiences of those of you that moved to a different turntable from Technics. What Technics table did you have and what cartridge? What new turntable and cartridge replaced your Technics setup? How did the sound improve? I would appreciate any and all advice!
Thanks for listening,
Dsper
i am starting the hunt for a new turntable and what to hear from past owners of Technics TT's.
My first real turntable was a Luxman PD272 with a Shure V15 Type IV cartridge, both of which I wore out. Given it was my formative years, I loved that set-up. I acquired my Technics 1200 Mk5 about ten years ago after a long journey down the digital fork in the road.
Due to some technical furniture issues and WAF, I had to set the TT aside, again. I have rolled through various digital gear and currently use a PS Audio PWT and Theta ProBasic III R2R ladder DAC.
Anyway...I set up the Technics again with an AT150 MLX cartridge and....lo and behold...the digital setup, while not possessing that vinyl sound, does sound better than the SL1200 and AT150.
I did not want to believe this, so I reinstalled the cartridge and realigned the table. Same resort. Basically, the sound is a bit tilted to the treble, the bass is a bit thin compared to my digital gear, and the overall sound seems lean.I have fiddled with cartridge tracking and tonearm balance with no improvement.
So what is next? Is it I do not like the AT cartridge? Has my digital gear outgrown my TT?
That is why I want to learn about the experiences of those of you that moved to a different turntable from Technics. What Technics table did you have and what cartridge? What new turntable and cartridge replaced your Technics setup? How did the sound improve? I would appreciate any and all advice!
Thanks for listening,
Dsper
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- 46 posts total
@atmasphere I know you’re not a collector of the best vintage cartridges and never was, but I’m constantly buying rare vintage cartridges hunting for them everyday, I’m telling the truth here, I have never seen a cartridge with collapsed suspension in my collection and all my cartridges (made 30 years ago) are still like new. You’re probably buying junk or you have no luck at all in what you’re buying. Not everyone looking for junk. Age of unused cartridge is not a problem at all (if it’s not Technics cartridge). I will repeat it again: new MC cartridges are much more problematic than 99% of good old MM/MI. When you have collapsed suspension on $3000-5000 NEW MC cartridge in the first year of using it - this is serious problem. If you’re so unlucky with vintage MM/MI do yourself a favor - buy spare stylus, don’t try to tell us they are all must be bad simply because they are made in the 80s! P.S. My latest discovery: LEVEL II Ruby EXP from the 80’s with original ruby cantilever. Believe it or not, but suspension is perfect. Do I believe in fairy tales you and many others posting here about collapsed suspensions on all vintage cartridges even if they are NOS? I don’t believe, because my own experience is today experience and competently different than yours. All NOS cartridges from different brands were just as good as new without any single problem with rubber damper. No difference in multiply samples of the same model too. Maybe we’re buying different cartridges and maybe I never tried what you tried. But my experience with brands like Audio-Technica, Grace, Pioneer, Stanton, Pickering is ONLY positive! Those carts I bought in so many samples over the years, so I can tell for sure they are just fine! I believe the designers choose the right material for dampers. Regarding vintage LOMC: For some reason my experience is also positive, remember sealed suspension on FR-7f series ? It will last forever, just another great example that old is gold. Fantastic cartridge! |
Actually I don't buy MM cartridges all that much; when I do they are new. I see them on turntables that we service. I've also experienced the phenomena with my own cartridges as they've aged. It does not seem to matter whether they are MM or LOMC. I examine the stylus with a microscope to see if there's any wear and then make sure its set up properly in the arm. If it doesn't sound right (tinny) then I replace the stylus. No need to set it up again- just change it and the unit immediately sounds better. Since its not wear, not dirt and not a bent cantilever, the only thing I can attribute this to is a perished suspension. Given the size of the suspension, its not hard to imagine that it will perish like a lot of other polymers that also perish in a similar amount of time. If the customer is a smoker then usually the suspension has melted (just like the rubber parts in a tape machine might in a similar situation). But otherwise when the suspension is gone I've found it more likely that its gone stiff. I've been able a couple of times to restore some suppleness to the suspension by using a tiny amount of brake fluid (which is a trick I learned from antique motorbike restoration for vintage irreplaceable tires) and letting the cartridge sit upside down for about a month. That restored things for a while, but then the sound went back downhill as the fluid worked its way down the cantilever and began collecting dirt. So really the only way I know to deal with this is to simply replace the stylus which isn't that hard (or expensive) with most MM cartridges. So two anecdotes, contradicting each other. But we do know that polymers perish; for me its more than a bit of a stretch that somehow the polymers used in all cartridges won't perish where they do so commonly elsewhere in the world. Occam's Razor solves this one nicely! |
FWIW, I realigned my moving coil AT150 MLA and I got the balance right but it is definitely harsh in the treble. I think I am done fussing with it. atmasphere, it was good to see your comment about the Grado Gold as it is on my short list of lighter weight MM cartridges. I am also considering a Sumiko Pearl or maybe a bit higher up that line. Another manufacturer I have been looking at is the Nagaoka 110 or 150. I like the smoothness of my Ortofon ProS40 but wish it was a bit more lively..... |
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- 46 posts total