cakyol:"It is all a personal taste. Some do like it, some do not. I do."
Hello cakyol,
Overall, I agree with your statement about supplementing the bass of the main speakers in a stereo system and room with subs. For readers of this thread who are considering adding one or more subs to their room or just want to learn more about how to do it well, however, I think it’d be beneficial to elaborate a bit.
In my opinion, it’s very unfortunate and misleading when those opposed to the use of subs falsely portray the effects of subs as ’boom, boom, boom, one note bass’, ’subs are only good for ht’ and ’subs just draw attention to themselves and are too difficult to integrate well with the main speakers’.
From my perspective and experience, these types of statements are just very obvious and reliable indicators that the commenter has failed to implement 1 or more subs in their own system, are simply describing the results of their personal unsuccessful sub integration attempts,, are unaware of how to do it well and, therefore, have never experienced the high quality bass performance and seamless integration when 1 or more subs are incorporated in a room and system skillfully.
My experience is that good bass performance can be achieved, at a single designated listening position, in most rooms utilizing 1 or 2 subs provided the subs are optimally positioned in the room, and in relation to the LP, through the use of the sub crawl, automated room correction or in room electronic measurements. My definition of ’good bass performance’ is bass that is solid, powerful, detailed, tonally accurate and natural along with being well integrated with the main speakers.
I believe in the axiom, however, that 2 subs perform about twice as well as 1 sub and 4 subs perform about twice as well as 2 subs. The main reason for my belief in this axiom is personal experience with its veracity in my own system and room. I find it amusing that some sub naysayers attempt to discredit this axiom by suggesting the use of 8 or 16 subs, wouldn’t that provide even better bass performance?
Well, the answer is a definitive yes, in-room bass performance is improved in direct relation to the number of subs being utilized in a given room, according to scientific experiments and research conducted by acoustic experts Dr. Earl Geddes, Dr. Floyd Toole and Todd Welti of Harman International.
Importantly, this independently verified sub research also discovered that in-room bass performance improved significantly with each sub added up to the threshold of 4 subs and that each sub added beyond 4 only improved bass performance to a smaller and more marginal extent. This research result, along with the fact that there’s a practical limit to the number of subs that individuals will accept in their rooms, are the rationale for the Audio Kinesis Swarm and Debra complete kit DBA systems, along with most custom DBA concept sub systems, typically utilizing 4 subs or less.
Based on my experience, there are 3 main benefits of adding a 2nd sub to a single sub system: 1. The overall system bass power and bass dynamics capacities are increased, since bass is cumulative in a room and the number of subs has been doubled, which results in the bass being more capable of faithfully reproducing whatever the bass demands of the source material may be. 2. Bass distortion is reduced, since each sub is operating at a reduced level and well within its limits. 3. The other general benefits of utilizing multiple subs in a room also begin to take effect and become noticeable with the use of 2 subs. Qualities such as increased bass smoothness, speed, detail, sense of ease, improved stereo sound stage illusion and better integration with the main speakers.
When I began using 4 subs in my room, I experienced further enhancements to all the 2 sub benefits mentioned earlier along with an immersive quality to the bass and an absolutely seamless integration of the improved bass with my main speakers.
Tim
Hello cakyol,
Overall, I agree with your statement about supplementing the bass of the main speakers in a stereo system and room with subs. For readers of this thread who are considering adding one or more subs to their room or just want to learn more about how to do it well, however, I think it’d be beneficial to elaborate a bit.
In my opinion, it’s very unfortunate and misleading when those opposed to the use of subs falsely portray the effects of subs as ’boom, boom, boom, one note bass’, ’subs are only good for ht’ and ’subs just draw attention to themselves and are too difficult to integrate well with the main speakers’.
From my perspective and experience, these types of statements are just very obvious and reliable indicators that the commenter has failed to implement 1 or more subs in their own system, are simply describing the results of their personal unsuccessful sub integration attempts,, are unaware of how to do it well and, therefore, have never experienced the high quality bass performance and seamless integration when 1 or more subs are incorporated in a room and system skillfully.
My experience is that good bass performance can be achieved, at a single designated listening position, in most rooms utilizing 1 or 2 subs provided the subs are optimally positioned in the room, and in relation to the LP, through the use of the sub crawl, automated room correction or in room electronic measurements. My definition of ’good bass performance’ is bass that is solid, powerful, detailed, tonally accurate and natural along with being well integrated with the main speakers.
I believe in the axiom, however, that 2 subs perform about twice as well as 1 sub and 4 subs perform about twice as well as 2 subs. The main reason for my belief in this axiom is personal experience with its veracity in my own system and room. I find it amusing that some sub naysayers attempt to discredit this axiom by suggesting the use of 8 or 16 subs, wouldn’t that provide even better bass performance?
Well, the answer is a definitive yes, in-room bass performance is improved in direct relation to the number of subs being utilized in a given room, according to scientific experiments and research conducted by acoustic experts Dr. Earl Geddes, Dr. Floyd Toole and Todd Welti of Harman International.
Importantly, this independently verified sub research also discovered that in-room bass performance improved significantly with each sub added up to the threshold of 4 subs and that each sub added beyond 4 only improved bass performance to a smaller and more marginal extent. This research result, along with the fact that there’s a practical limit to the number of subs that individuals will accept in their rooms, are the rationale for the Audio Kinesis Swarm and Debra complete kit DBA systems, along with most custom DBA concept sub systems, typically utilizing 4 subs or less.
Based on my experience, there are 3 main benefits of adding a 2nd sub to a single sub system: 1. The overall system bass power and bass dynamics capacities are increased, since bass is cumulative in a room and the number of subs has been doubled, which results in the bass being more capable of faithfully reproducing whatever the bass demands of the source material may be. 2. Bass distortion is reduced, since each sub is operating at a reduced level and well within its limits. 3. The other general benefits of utilizing multiple subs in a room also begin to take effect and become noticeable with the use of 2 subs. Qualities such as increased bass smoothness, speed, detail, sense of ease, improved stereo sound stage illusion and better integration with the main speakers.
When I began using 4 subs in my room, I experienced further enhancements to all the 2 sub benefits mentioned earlier along with an immersive quality to the bass and an absolutely seamless integration of the improved bass with my main speakers.
Tim