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vinyl versus digital redux

Has anyone compared the sound of vinyl with the sound of digital converted from a vinyl intermediary ?

I am referring to 'rips' of vinyl made with high end, high quality vinyl playback systems, with
conversion to high resolution digital.
I find it nearly impossible to distinguish the two results.
The digital rip of a vinyl record sounds identical...or very nearly so...to direct playback of the vinyl.

If one has 'experienced' the foregoing, one might question why digital made without the intermediary of vinyl sounds so different from vinyl.   A detective story ?

We are talking about vinyl made by ADC (analog to digital conversion) of an amplified microphone signal and re-conversion to analog for output to the record cutting lathe, or from analog tape recording of an amplified microphone signal, and then....as above...via ADCl and back to analog for output to the cutting lathe.

Of course vinyl can be and is 'cut' (pressings made from 'stamper' copies the 'master' cut in lacquer) without digital intermediary.  Such practice is apparently uncommon, and ?? identified as such by the 'label' (production)

Has anyone compared vinyl and high resolution digital (downloads) albums offered by the same 'label' of the same performance ?  Granted, digital versus vinyl difference should diminish with higher digital resolution.   Sound waves are sine waves....air waves do not 'travel' in digital bits.    A digital signal cannot be more than an approximation of a sine wave, but a closer approximation as potential digital resolution (equating to bit depth times sampling frequency) increases.

If vinyl and digital well made from vinyl intermediary sound almost identical, and If vinyl and digital not made via vinyl intermediary sound quite different, what is the source of this difference ? 

Could it reside....I'll skip the sound processing stages (including RIAA equalization)...in the electro-mechanical process imparting the signal to the vinyl groove ?

Is there analogy with speaker cone material and the need for a degree of self-damping ?
Were self-damping not to some extent desirable, would not all speaker cones, from tweeter to sub-woofer, be made of materials where stiffness to weight ratio was of sole importance ?

Thanks for any comments.
seventies
orpheus10
8,668 posts
 

It's quite similar to recording on a reel to reel; you have to make sure the level is not too high or too low; some records are hot (high level) while others are soft, so you have to make sure that's adjusted properly on each record, but it's as easy as recording to a reel.

In regard to setting up the programming, I have someone who has a degree in computer science to assist me, I must confess, I don't  really understand computers, but he does.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,633 posts
 
What is wrong with electricity? If it were not for electricity we would not be having this conversation.
 I think you lightly dismiss digital storage. With digital storage backups are always a necessity.
:) My objection is having to use electricity to maintain the recording itself. Its nice that the recordings can sit on the shelf and sound the same ten years from now as they do now. Having worked for a while in the computer industry (albeit a long time ago) I do admit that I'm a bit distrustful of digital storage. But don't mistake that for being dismissive- I really appreciate the physical space and convenience. Digital has gotten good enough that if I had to start over, I'd probably not be so concerned about having vinyl. But OTOH have some LPs that simply won't ever get to be reissued from the masters as they are gone (ex.: Its A Beautiful Day famously burned the master tape to their best LP during a dispute with the label).
seventies OP
67 posts
 
o_holter and others,
I thank particularly o_holter for his comments concerning deterioration of sound 'stored' on tape, on the sound becoming dull.
The subject has been of particular interest to me.
'Dull', truncated high frequency sound has been my experience with 're-mastered classic classical recordings and 'high definition tape transfers', a reason to avoid...or avoid purchasing...digital conversions of older tape recordings, however 'high resolution' the conversion. 
So 'unresolved' questions are: 1. Do lp's last much longer, and 2. can and need 'digital deterioration' be addressed, some type of lossless fault tolerant storage ?

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,227 posts
 
Atmasphere! I have two original copies of It's a Beautiful Day! I loved it so much I bought another copy worried I would play the one to death. 
Orpheus, you need to check out Channel D's website. I use their Pure Vinyl program which will library and store records on Apple computers.
It will even supply digital RIAA EQ but you have to have a phono stage with a flat output. I only use it for comparison's sake. As cleed opines recording albums in real time is a PITA. If I'm feeling lazy I just load up a digital playlist and let the computer go at it. I have just as many albums on the hard drive if not more. Playing vinyl I prefer it right off the diamond. 
I have heard many fine remasters of old stuff. As a matter of fact right now I am listening to a remaster of Seven Steps to Heaven. Granted I do not have an original to compare it to. Ignorance is bliss. If the music is OK, I'm OK. 
orpheus10
8,668 posts
 

Mijostyn,

"Playing vinyl I prefer it right off the diamond."

Why would you prefer it right off the diamond if you could hear the same thing off the hard-drive?

Wouldn't it be easier to relax in the "sweet spot" and not have to get up at the end of side 1 to flip the record over, and repeat that for each record.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying you don't hear the same thing when you load up a digital playlist and let the computer go at it?


Anyone who is not getting the same thing "off-the hard-drive" as "off the diamond" is not doing something right, because I am getting the same thing "off the hard-drive" as "off the diamond".


Is this a case of the "fox and the grapes"?
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