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A challenge to the "measurement" camp

I’ve watched some of his video and I actually agree on some of what he said,
but he seems too confident on his insistence on measurement. For those
who expound on the merits of blind test and measurement, why not turn
the table upside down?

Why not do a blind test of measurement? That is I will supply all the measurement
you want, can you tell me which is a better product?

For example, if I have a set of cable, and a set of measurement for each
individual cable, can you tell me which is the best cable based on measurement
alone? I will supply all the measurement you want.
After all, that is what you’re after right? Objective result and not subjective
listening test.

Fast forward to 8:15 mark where he keeps ranting about listening test
without measurement.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=katmUM-Xelw

By the way, is he getting paid by Belden?  Because he keeps talking about it
and how well it measures.  I've had some BlueJean cables and they can easily
bettered by some decent cables.  
andy2
andy2 OP
1,533 posts
 
For those interested, here's the article from PassLabs talking about feedback vs no feedback.  Forward to Figure 11.  It shows feedback reduces the overall distortion but has more higher order distortion which the ears are sensitive to.  This is another example in which something measures well but it creates higher order affect which can be difficult to quantify and not always obvious in real life.  

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_dist_fdbk.pdf
Negative feedback can reduce the total quantity of distortion, but it adds new components on its own, and tempts the designer to use more cascaded gain stages in search of better numbers, accompanied by greater feedback frequency stability issues.
The resulting complexity creates distortion which is unlike the simple harmonics associated with musical instruments, and we see that these complex waves can gather to create the occasional tsunami of distortion, peaking at values far above those imagined by the distortion specifications.

rixthetrick's avatar
rixthetrick
1,060 posts
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC0s6KqQz3g

Thought this might be of interest, and yeah something about speaker wires that is measurable, dead easy to measure.

Enjoy!
roberttdid
534 posts
 
Nelson Pass’ article is a marketing blurb meant to fool people like Andy2, who don’t know much about amplifier design. Obviously it worked.

Of course, someone observant would say, HEY! the distortion went up from 3 to 6 to 10db feedback, but at 15db feedback, it looks like it goes down some. Why didn’t your experiment include 20 or 30db of feedback Mr. Pass? .... well @andy2 , why didn’t it? You are the "expert" according to you. So tell us why he didn’t include 30db of feedback in that graph, and better yet, what would have happened with 30db feedback in an amplifier capable of properly implementing that.

We all wait with bated breath for your wisdom ....
speedbump6
760 posts
 
I see the “ stifling” efforts are still in full swing. If anyone would like some real banter come join my game room, lol. No mods there, just a few rules, and bring your best banter. No logic or common sense needed as many there prove every day.  Thing is, I didn’t realize people came to this forum for banter. Was hoping this was more of a place where people tried to help each other to further the enjoyment of their hobby. Maybe some people don’t really enjoy this hobby, only come to try to ridicule others. The level of constant bitterness would lead to this being a logical conclusion. 
roberttdid
534 posts
 
The whole point of the post (or poster) is to "stifle". Why do you keep participating speedbump6? What's up with the whole virtue signalling thing?
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