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Which R2R DAC UP TO 1K: ORGANIC, FULL-BODIED, DEEP SOUNDSTAGE

Hi all and hello George,

I`m new to Audiogon and as I have seen from earlier discussions some of you seem to be THE absolute R2R enthusiasts for many years. May I ask you for some help regarding this topic as I`m out for a new dac which should be R2R?

I`m coming from a Lector CDP 707, which is sold now as I got over to streaming, but I bloody regret it. The Lector had all I ever wanted, tonally he played on the warm, full-bodied side, organically with a lot of flesh to the bone and authority/slam and I loved the expansive soundstage, not overly wide but very deep. Bass was punchy enough even for EDM which I listen to mainly.

For the moment I`m using my former headamp as a DAC, the Questyle CMA 600i, with a DS chip on board, AKM 4490. I wouldn`t call it a catastrophe, but of course the signature is lightyears away from the Lector.

When looking for a new DAC I saw that Lector Strumenti offers some too, but I`m afraid my budget is too small with up to 1K, so this is not an option.

In respect of the Lector using the PCM 1704K I thought about (ab)using some vintage gear, for examle the Denon DVD 5000 with 4xPCM 1704J on board too (the Denon has a digital input and could be used as a stand alone DAC too), but I was told the analog stage is crappy and so I got away from this.

Still on my mind is the old Naim DAC and the Bifrost 2 or a used HoloSpring but for the moment I got no possibilitys to test them in my system (I`m using a tube packed preamp and as a headamp the Emotiva BasX 100 with the jumpers set as my "heddphone" requires some juice) and sure I`m open to any other ideas.

So, what would be your favourite devices when looking at my desired sound and knowing what (tiny amount) I got to spend?


It should be able to handle 24/96 btw, but my main concern would be an extremely deep and wide soundstage and a darker organic tonality.

Would be really glad for some help and input.

Best regards
Michael


barrista0611
mitch2
3,697 posts
 
If you liked the organic nature of your Lector using the  PCM 1704K chip, you should have heard the prior MkII model that used the TI PCM63 dac chip .....very analog-like.  I owned both.
bigkidz
3,324 posts
 
my suggestion is the Electrocompaniet one up.  Very musical and reliable.  To me the Lector was a good sounding unit but a little to mussy overall in the bass.  Happy Listening.
bthemann
14 posts
 
Haven’t heard one but everyone loves the Denafrips R2R architecture in their upper end. Assuming they’re driving their technology into the lower price point, an Ares II or Pontus are in your range and may please you. A commitment of course but I am seriously considering the Venus based on my Gear and research. 
dougeyjones's avatar
dougeyjones
163 posts
 
Enjoy your clipped dynamic range and resolving power 👍🏻
“So it appears another older technology has had a resurgence over the last 5 years and is all the rage now. R2R aka resistor ladder dacs. Pretty much all conventional Dacs these days are delta sigma. These designs used to be very popular in the early to mid 90s but gradually disappeared into obscurity. On paper these resistor ladder dacs seem to perform worse and offer less effective dynamic range (20-21bits) but people seem to comment how 'analog' sounding they are.”
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
Pretty much all conventional Dacs these days are delta sigma. These designs used to be very popular in the early to mid 90s but gradually disappeared into obscurity.


DS (Delta Sigma/1bit/bitstream) never disappeared, but it did replaced the last of the R2R chips for two reasons back in the 90's 00's, one was they were a "fraction of the cost" to manufacture compared to R2R and it's laser trimming.
And then they could also do the upcoming SACD's in 99 (today called DSD without the SACD flag.)

 But now discrete R2R is making big noises in hiend audio because it has a musicality, compared to DS. Which DS to me when playing PCM 16/44 or 24/96, DXD recordings is smooth enough, but is a bit of a yawn, there seems to the "boogie factor" excitement missing that get you tapping. 

It's said by MoJo Music DSD v PCM
When a PCM file is played on a native DSD/SACD DS/single-bit/bitstream converter, the single-bit DAC chip has to convert the PCM to DSD in real-time. This is one of the major reasons people claim DSD sounds better than PCM, when in fact, it is just that the chip in most modern DS single-bit DACs do a poor job of decoding PCM.
PCM cd's should to be listened to on R2R dacs for the best bit perfect  presentation.

Cheers George
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