Which R2R DAC UP TO 1K: ORGANIC, FULL-BODIED, DEEP SOUNDSTAGE
Hi all and hello George,
I`m new to Audiogon and as I have seen from earlier discussions some of you seem to be THE absolute R2R enthusiasts for many years. May I ask you for some help regarding this topic as I`m out for a new dac which should be R2R?
I`m coming from a Lector CDP 707, which is sold now as I got over to streaming, but I bloody regret it. The Lector had all I ever wanted, tonally he played on the warm, full-bodied side, organically with a lot of flesh to the bone and authority/slam and I loved the expansive soundstage, not overly wide but very deep. Bass was punchy enough even for EDM which I listen to mainly.
For the moment I`m using my former headamp as a DAC, the Questyle CMA 600i, with a DS chip on board, AKM 4490. I wouldn`t call it a catastrophe, but of course the signature is lightyears away from the Lector.
When looking for a new DAC I saw that Lector Strumenti offers some too, but I`m afraid my budget is too small with up to 1K, so this is not an option.
In respect of the Lector using the PCM 1704K I thought about (ab)using some vintage gear, for examle the Denon DVD 5000 with 4xPCM 1704J on board too (the Denon has a digital input and could be used as a stand alone DAC too), but I was told the analog stage is crappy and so I got away from this.
Still on my mind is the old Naim DAC and the Bifrost 2 or a used HoloSpring but for the moment I got no possibilitys to test them in my system (I`m using a tube packed preamp and as a headamp the Emotiva BasX 100 with the jumpers set as my "heddphone" requires some juice) and sure I`m open to any other ideas.
So, what would be your favourite devices when looking at my desired sound and knowing what (tiny amount) I got to spend?
It should be able to handle 24/96 btw, but my main concern would be an extremely deep and wide soundstage and a darker organic tonality.
Would be really glad for some help and input.
Best regards
Michael
Looks good, I'm not for one with DAC's that use output tubes as they need to look at high impedance input loading from the following equipment. Ask him if that "250ohm" output impedance is constant that it says it is from 20hz to 20khz. If it rises at 20hz you will need for it to see 100kohm input impedance amp or preamp, or install a much larger coupling caps on the tube L&R output stage. Cheers George |
barrista0611 OP Michael did you miss this I posted?? It has PCM1704K/HDCD200 and digital in and out. "Could" even sound better than your Lector did. Yes it does input and output rca’s and aes/ebu also optical https://www.audioasylumtrader.com/images/y2014/10/119602/IMG_0551.JPG https://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/CD-Player-Recorder/Cary-Audio/303-200/HDCD-CD-Player/119602 Cheers George |
Pretty much all conventional Dacs these days are delta sigma. These designs used to be very popular in the early to mid 90s but gradually disappeared into obscurity. DS (Delta Sigma/1bit/bitstream) never disappeared, but it did replaced the last of the R2R chips for two reasons back in the 90's 00's, one was they were a "fraction of the cost" to manufacture compared to R2R and it's laser trimming. And then they could also do the upcoming SACD's in 99 (today called DSD without the SACD flag.) But now discrete R2R is making big noises in hiend audio because it has a musicality, compared to DS. Which DS to me when playing PCM 16/44 or 24/96, DXD recordings is smooth enough, but is a bit of a yawn, there seems to the "boogie factor" excitement missing that get you tapping. It's said by MoJo Music DSD v PCM When a PCM file is played on a native DSD/SACD DS/single-bit/bitstream converter, the single-bit DAC chip has to convert the PCM to DSD in real-time. This is one of the major reasons people claim DSD sounds better than PCM, when in fact, it is just that the chip in most modern DS single-bit DACs do a poor job of decoding PCM.PCM cd's should to be listened to on R2R dacs for the best bit perfect presentation. Cheers George |
barrista0611
Cary 303-200 I’m asking myself if it can compete with the newer dedicated R2R dacsI owned own for many years and was very happy with it standard, in the end even modded it with my own stacked AD844 I/V stage, and then it became a giant killer. https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/227677-using-ad844.html but it doesn’t have a digital input.Yes it does input and output rca’s and aes/ebu also optical https://www.audioasylumtrader.com/images/y2014/10/119602/IMG_0551.JPG https://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/CD-Player-Recorder/Cary-Audio/303-200/HDCD-CD-Player/119602 Cheers George |
barrista0611 Yes Michael, your Lector you should have kept, as it had the best R2R chips, 2 x PM1704-K "K" being selected and a cheap easy to get SF-HD65 laser. These PCM1704 and the 1702 were the best and last of the R2R Multibit dacs chips made. Now they’re all discrete R2R Multibit some better some worse. My Linn CD-12 had 4 of the PCM1704K’s in it with a great sound, full bodied yet tight and very dynamic, great boogie factor. Your on a budget, to get back into that sound cheaply try to hunt down a Cary CD-303-200 it has the PCM1704’s and the very good PMD200 HDCD filter chip and uses the VAM1202 laser still obtainable nice and cheap should you ever need one. https://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/504cary/index.html Or even a California Audio Labs CL-15 https://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/1198cal/index.html but the laser RAE0113Z is also getting real hard to get. That Denon yes uses the PCM1704 but the lower PMD100 HDCD filter chip, and it’s laser VED0378 is getting well over $100 and hard to get. I now have a MSB discrete R2R and love it. R2R conversion done right just has a real live rich sound, unbelievable on good recording. But it "can" give you warts and all on the real bad ones. Where DS (delta sigma) to me is smooth and is better for bad recordings, but at the sacrifice of being just a bit of a yawn on the good ones, but it does DSD and SACD that’s what it’s good for. Cheers George |
Here's Lector but it's $$$$$$ https://www.audio-markt.de/market/lector-strumenti-audio-cdp-707-8414737040 |
