Rega P10 v Complete rebuild Garrard 401!

ndevamp, not my subwoofers. And just what other considerable virtues are there other than the retro aesthetics? 
As a note, in my book anything under 100 Hz is certainly rumble and my subwoofers are crossed over at 125 Hz so it may be more of a problem for me than people who cross lower. But noise is never a good thing especially when you notice it. Given the now inflated asking price for these turntables and the additional money people have to spend on plinths and fancy idler wheels it is just not worth it. Also none of them are isolated which in my book is the kiss of death. Any good isolated belt driven turntable such as an SME, SOTA, Basis or Air Force will run rings around any of them. Air Force as an example makes cost no object turntables. They could easily do an idler wheel turntable but they stay with belt drive. Even the $450.000 Air Force Zero uses a belt drive. 

Mijo
One assumes from all of your extreme and dismissive views on idler drives in general that you have owned and used them yourself in your system and therefore speak from deep experience, yes?

If not then please ease up as it then remains your opinion only!

All I can say is that I like my 401, flaws and all. I love the dynamic and musical sound, as well as the way it looks.
Sure, other turntables are technically far better and you can go down that road if you like. I’ve owned some of them. But I am happy with the 401 now.
I like driving an Alfa Romeo- fun, quirky, characterful. You might like a Porsche- seriously fast and precise.

Question from the real life

Garrard 401 vs Rega RP8.
Measurement wow and flutter who will be the winner?

Garrard 401 fully serviced but everything is still original (idler wheel also). Rega - 3 days old so as new.

I had such question from my friend who have measured his Garrard against Rega side by side. I can make you a hint clear winner was Garrard. He have pro device for this purpose not mobile app :)

If you look into Rega technical specification and manual you’ll find close to nothing. So how to buy turntable about which manufacturer speaks only about materials used? Of course in our century figures means nothing, marketing means everything.

Here’s where I say (to Mijo) that I owned a Star Sapphire Series III with vacuum platter for about 10 years, as my one and only turntable. I sold it in the late 90s. I replaced it with a Nottingham Analog Hyperspace, another belt drive but an unsuspended one. Then came a succession of direct-drive turntables including a Technics SP10 Mk3 and a Kenwood L07D and a Lenco that I highly modified with slate plinth, massive upgraded bearing, Phoenix Engineering motor control, etc. My cumulative post-Sapphire experience revealed to me early on that the Sapphire had very poor speed stability. The decay of piano notes was frequently "sour". Bass was muffled and indistinct. And etc. Back in the 90s, I thought what I was hearing from the Star Sapphire was simply typical for vinyl reproduction. I realized the deficiencies of the Sapphire very quickly after purchasing the Hyperspace, and the issue was even more clear after I added a motor controller to the Hyperspace. All my subsequent turntables confirmed my initial post-Sapphire impressions of the Sapphire. I think a weakness of that old SOTA design, as I have noted many times, is the fact that the motor is mounted on the immobile plinth, while the platter floats on the suspension. This causes the belt to stretch when the suspension is activated, and may be the cause of the audible speed instability.

I do understand the potential value of suspending the works of a turntable, and I think the way to do it is to take an unsuspended turntable and put the whole shebang on a MinusK or Herzan platform. When you mention megabuck belt-drive turntables, you neglected to include the Doehmann Helix, which incorporates a Minus K stand into its structure. I have had some experience listening to the Helix, although I cannot afford one, and I found it to be the best sounding belt-drive I have ever heard. The Air Force turntables likely also air-suspend the entire chassis, to eliminate the stretching belt phenomenon, but I’ve never heard one. The fact remains that the SOTA Star Sapphire is not a contender. Since I do admire SOTA as a company, I would also mention that their more modern models (Cosmos, Nova, and Millenium) may have dealt with the problem I mentioned. And by the way, my Lenco is as silent as any other turntable I’ve heard, and in that system I run massive dedicated woofers in stereo from 100Hz down. We can argue all day about whose turntable is quiet and whose is not, but the point is that the 301/401 can be made to satisfy some discriminating audiophiles in that regard, your opinion notwithstanding.