Advice on system and speaker placement-B&W

Jeff,

I have been in your shoes before and actually started buying music based on the recording, not what I was into as I wanted things to sound good and not bright. You have gotten some good advice from Dave and Ubglub.

Here is my 2 cents for what it is worth. The Rotel and MF are not the best match for your speakers. They never will be either. Based on my experience, the best match for your speakers is Tube Amplication. The metal dome tweeter in your speaker is just not getting along with your average SS amplfication.

This is from a review and I agree totally.

"The N804 prefers tube amplification. Being a tool, it has very little sound of its own. It does not seem to be voiced either on the cool and analytical side or the warm and sweet side. On the other hand, the superior resolution clearly presents any hint of the typical solid-state characteristics of coolness and upper frequency grain. Less than top-quality "sand" amplification should be avoided."

The Rotel stuff is okay for the money but your speakers deserve better. I would sell the MF and the Rotel and get a Tube Integrated or even a Hybrid. The Unison Unico would be a stellar match and make everything shine. Even less than perfect recordings. Or take a look at some full tube rigs like Cary, Manley, or Prima Luna.

This WILL fix your problem. Moving the speakers and adding a sub may help but will only band-aid what you are experiencing.

List your MF and Rotel on Audiogon and go shoppping. Your CD Player and speakers are not your problem. Good luck.

Chris

I really think you have an issue with speaker placement. I also have N804's. However, they are currently in a dedicated listening room (15'x22'x9.5) , so I can place them anywhere I want. I found that using the Cardas method really works out well. Speakers are 6'-1" from the front wall and 3'-10" from side walls. Spacing is 7'-4".

For the size of your room, the 804's may be a bit small. You might move up the B&W line to the new 803S or 803D. Actually, any of the larger B&W's would work. Given that you can't move the 804's and considering that you may not want to drop 8k for new speakers, you could try a tubed preamp and see what that does to the sound, imaging, dynamics, etc. As someone noted above, they do respond well to tubes, so if you like the results from a tubed pre, then you can try a tubed amp. I am using a tubed pre and SS amp(VTL 5.5/Krell 2250). BTW, I doubt that your CDP is the cause of this. Hope this helps some. Good luck.

Thanks for the input. Midrons/Chris, I tried a cary 308 tube preamp with the Rotel amp and it helped but was still glassy on top. I also tried the BAT VK-300 (not tubed version) and it wasn't any better than my musical fidelity/rotel setup. I'm guessing I need to think about a more foregiving speaker here (placement and bad recordings). But pls keep the thoughts coming.

Its interesting that the issue of tubed amplification came up. It hadn't occured to me before. I've been using a very good tube pre with SS amps

You didn't mention how far back your listening position is. If there is any way to get them a little further out, then I would do so. I've alway used the 1.5 rule (or manufacturer's recommendation) when first setting my speakers up and experiement from three. If your speakers are 10' apart then your listening position should be about 15' from each speaker. I also tow mine in so they point to about 6" to the side of my ears while seated in my listening position. This works well for me with speakers that have good dispersion. However, some spekers sound better towed to a point just in front of the listening position. Just some things to try, but you'll just have to experiment and see what works best in your room. BTW, setting them up along the short wall is best IMO.