Vinyl or wait for the new stuff??

Why do the majority of you guys waste your time on these angry personal assaults ? Many of us have been away from vinyl for years and probably harbor many misconceptions about how vinyl stands up against digital in 2000. Vinyl is inherently more surface noisy and generally more complicated to deal with, HOWEVER, IT SOUNDS MORE ACCURATE & NATURAL THAN CD. We can debate the reasons for the differences till the cows come home, but what's the point ? If,in fact, what we are trying to do in this hobby is re-create live music in our homes- then I contend that well executed vinyl playback sounds more natural than well executed cd playback- on a dollar for dollar basis.If more natural is more correct than vinyl is better. If more natural is not more correct than I'm mixed up as to what we are supposed to be trying to achieve. The acid test- demo your favorite well recorded cd & lp of the same title and decide which sounds more natural, more pleasing- AND LEAVE IT AT THAT !!!

I've done that many times, and in addition "accuracy" was favored with the LP also. My CD player costs $3000, and my LP front end costs around $2900, including phono stage. It's easy to criticize those who are debating this, until you join in, then you might better understand. For instance, if I were Joe, I would tell you that "you simply aren't making a logical argument, and thus your thoughts have no valid basis to be included here". Only if he said it, it would be much more rude, much less evolved...And you watch, he'll say that I'm dead wrong, and treat you with the highest respect, just to spite me. I have his number, 1-800-blowhard...

One practical consideration is the availability of media. IMHO, I believe that a quality analogue front end still surpasses the best 16 bit gear available today. While I've abandoned analogue for the convienence of CD, an in-law of mine remains committed. I understand his greatest issue today is not pouring concrete turntable foundations, maintaining exotic bearing assemblies or keeping his disks microscopically clean - but the never ending hunt for decent vinyl to play. The new digital formats appear to much more closely approach analogue quality. I suspect that for whichever format emerges dominant, there will be no eventual shortage of media. So for me, I've decided to hobble along with the 16 bit stuff a little longer.

Merits to both formats. Some of the brand new digital recordings such as 'Pat Metheny and Jim hall', and the diana krall recordings sound excellent on my 44khz player. I would guess that they use tube mics to get that nice warm sound. On my equivalently priced cd/vinyl (about 3K each) systems, I do much prefer the sound of a vinyl recording to a CD. This preference has increased the as I listen to the record player more. I've only had it for a few weeks. Vinyl has won three a/b comparisons with different recordings from different eras (the trinity session, ricky lee jones, and the original glen gould bach preludes). I like the naturalness and sense of presence that a record has. A cd recording feels like it's floating on air, whereas the vinyl feels like its sitting on a concrete foundation. CD's have an ethereal quality to them. You're a little less 'there'. It's a little like driving a windows-up air conditioned 4x4 verses hiking. Easier but more forgetable. I am hoping the newer formats like SACD, and 96khz will bring some of this 'thereness' back. After all, many of the new records are digital recordings. One of my vinyl vs CD preferences, the wonderful 'trinity session' album was made on an RDAT machine w/one microphone. Their recording equipment could probably fit into a suitcase ! Perhaps much of CD's harshness comes from downsampling. Another source of harshness may be cheap cd players. A cheap cd player emphasizes the 'digital harshness', or brittleness. Once you hear it, it bothers you.

John_l, pleased to read your comments in defense of vinyl. Carl has expressed his preference, and now, so will I. The general topic is one of High End Audio, and therefore is NOT limited to "best value," or most convenient audio. To me that means that the ultimate performance people have a right to comments as well. Therefore, I say to Joe_coherent or anyone else that says that CD is superior to LP, then you have not heard vinyl at it's full potential. Perhaps the statement that inexpensive LP playback equipment will not compete with similarly priced digital gear may in fact be correct. The vinyl format requires tremendous work to make perfect, and if the work is put in, it can be made to work better than any other music format. This (of course) excludes those who have access to original master tapes of musical performances. I will not argue for vinyl concerning value, the availability of new titles, convenience of operation, or justify that everyone should put in the work required for a perfect set up. I WILL state that if the labor and money are invested, nothing will compete with the performance LP can provide. Personally, for me to get there, I have (at retail) $46,000.00 just in the turntable, phono cartridge and the equipment DIRECTLY associated to play an LP. This certainly does not include my music library, the record cleaning equipment or the substantial investment in the remainder of my system (including the Soundlab Ultimate 1's). You can ridicule my substantial investment, call me crazy, or just dedicated. However, if you have not heard LP playback at this level, you are correct ONLY within your realm of experience. To further clarify my personal position, I do not deal with any retail stores, I do advertising photography for the audio business, with ads in nearly every high end publication printed this month. I have been in or around the high end audio business for over 30 years, and am personal friends with many of the people who manufacture the products discussed at Audiogon. There are no manufacturers within my experience that will NOT agree that LP is superior. This may have to be discussed in the hallway at CES, or at their home, but it is none the less common knowledge in the business. This does not mean that CD cannot be wonderful, it certainly does not mean you should abandon digital and move to LP. It simply means that if the ultimate musical performance is really valuable to you, the LP format is a requirement.