2. amps-preamps
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I'm confused

I like to spend time on Audiogon to educate myself. However, the more I educate myself, the more confuse I get. That shows how novel I am.

Here is my case. I have 7 power-hungry speakers with handling power from 50-250watt. Due to small room size (12'X13'), my current HT set up 5.1 Thinking 90wpc is sufficient, I received a free used Denon 2802 as a gift. My AVR got clip once when I was watching Tears From the Sun too loud. I learned that b/c 90wpc was not continuously power driven, the true wpc could get reduced substantially. So here are my options below.

1) Get 7-channel amp (100 - 200wpc) to go w/ current Denon AVR. Cons: some body said that I am better off saving my $ by using the amp from current AVR since multichannel amp is not any better. Is this true?

2) Use my current AVR or upgrade to better, more powerful one since multi-channel does not add much value to the quality of sound compared to the amount of money added. Cons: Sound quality?

3) Get 2-channel amp to drive main speakers during stereo mode. Get additional 3-channel amp to drive center and side rear speakers. In the future, get additional 2 channel to complete the 7.1 setup. Cons: really limited space, really excessive generated heat, and really expensive.

4) Go separate like the Outlaw combo -- 7X200wpc amp and a separate preamp/processor for ~ $2400. Cons: entry preamp/processor won't make a difference compared to other higher-end preamp/proc? Moreover, I can get a better quality pre-own combo for less amount of money, and if so DOES THE WPC ON PREAMP/PROC HAVE TO MATCH W/ WPC ON MULTI-CHANNEL AMP?

Even though the info provided is very limited, if you were me, which option would you pick and explain why you pick such option or eliminate others. I'm new to this, so I'm all ears. Each response got my full, undivided attention.
lej1447
gunbei
2,327 posts
 
What kind of speakers are you using. What is their efficiency, and processor output setting?

Do you have a subwoofer? Marty makes a good point, because if you use a subwoofer you can set all your speakers to "small" rather than a "large" setting if that's what you're doing. This will take a big load off your speakers especially your mains and allow them to perform better without having to reproduce the LFE channel.

We could use a little more information.
sean
6,231 posts
 
Pick up a higher powered ( 150 - 200 wpc ) 3 channel amp and use that for your center, left and right channels. This will take the load off of the power supply in the Denon and allow it to deliver more power to the remaining four channels in both a more consistent and dynamic manner.

Since you had all 7 channels pulling on the power supply at the same time, i'm sure that the power supply was sagging. This causes the power available to any channel at any given time to be reduced, resulting in starvation, clipping and smeared sonics. By reducing the number of channels drawing upon said power supply, in effect, you help to stabilize the power supply and minimize sag. This allows the amp to run at rated power with greated dynamic headroom for the remaining four channels.

At the same time that all of this is taking place, the majority of signal that you are listening to would be fed to the three front speakers in both a higher quality and more potent manner via the three channel amp. You get the most bang for the buck this way and can always upgrade the remaining channels at a later date should you feel the need. Sean
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mrowlands
54 posts
 
Marty, it seems that you haven't actually stated your goal; is it to listen to bombastic movies without clipping? And/or do you want to be able to clearly hear each instrument in a 2 channel symphony? While it's true that the same amount of money will get a better 2 channel system, how much would you miss by not having good surround sound (for music as well as movies)? I believe your most cost effective solution here is indeed a more powerful multi-channel amp, because the Denon, while not super-high-end, has excellent features (I'm assuming it DOES have multichannel pre-outs) as a pre-amp. As I think Marty is alluding to, you might even be able to solve your clipping problem with a decent powered sub-woofer to replace some of the amp-sapping low frequency duties. I must say however, that in most AVRs, the sound quality will suffer slightly in some ways when using bass management on the receiver, but the tradeoff may be acceptable to your ears. You also really should divulge what your speakers are and what their efficiency is if you know it.

Good luck,

Mike R.
sdcampbell
2,136 posts
 
All of the advice above is good, so please excuse me if I question one aspect of your thinking (and I don't mean this as a personal insult in any way). You didn't mention any near-term plan to get a larger listening room, so I don't see the merit of a 7.1 HT system in a room that measures 12'x13'. Infact, I think the 7.1 HT setup is questionable for the vast majority of home listeners for two reasons:
1. there is very little software being made for either 6.1 or 7.1 format, and from the articles that I've read there is little intent in Hollywood to do so;
2. adding several more sets of speakers, plus the required amplification, adds a lot of cost and provides little or no improvement over a high quality 5.1 system (unless, perhaps, the listening room is quite large).

With regard to point #1, I suggest you go the following two links on Bryston's Web site and read the comments about 5.1 vs. the expanded formats:
1. http://www.bryston.ca/newsletters/55_files/vol5is5.html
(see the article called "Encode vs. Decode")
2. http://www.bryston.ca/newsletters/64_files/vol6is4.html
(see the article called "The Great Capitulation")

My personal advice is to stick with the 5.1 HT setup and invest more money in the quality of your amps and speakers, probably adding a good subwoofer, before adopting the expanded formats. Sean's recommendation to get a decent 3-channel amp (such as the Adcom GFA-5503) for your center and surround speakers makes a lot of sense (and is the approach I used in assembling my own HT system). Investing in better quality 5.1 format equipment will result in a much better HT system than adding several more mediocre speakers and channels of amplification.
gunbei
2,327 posts
 
Lej1447,

Five years ago I set up an HT system using a Marantz 5.1 pre/pro and an ATI AT1505 5x150 watt amp feeding five NHT monitors. I also have an NHT 12" sub and all this is in a 12x14 room. By now all this equipment is yesterday's tech, but I haven't had the urge to upgrade since. It may be because my interest has been focused on 2 channel listening ever since.

But I wll tell you that I never feel a need for more power or dynamics even on demanding movie scenes. It may have to do with what some of the respondents here have recommended about using a high current amp other than the Denon for your front channels. With the monitors set to small and the subwoofer set to cover everything below what the monitors are fed, I get the full effect of crashes, explosions and dinosaur stomps in a convincing and controlled manner.

In my small room, I feel adding more channels isn't necessary.
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