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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Oeaohoo

I have a fair bit to say about what you have said but am off to work now.

You need to compare the Ampohm vs. CAST in real time if you can? I have Ampohm and have done so against VSF. The Ampohm (which I like in a way) are exactly like the vintage Vishay ERO and if one wants to maintain a vintage tone they are great for that in a guitar amp I am sure as well.

There is one cap I have mentioned many times that always sounds nice but for some reason is falling out of favour. The VSF is vastly superior to Ampohm and still has some resonance that some will like. Remember the Clarity paper had 30% of people liking high resonance caps.

Is it the CAST's fault that a poorly recorded CD will sound like crap? The VSF are far more forgiving. You need to hear the HUGE dynamic difference from CAST to Ampohm. Ampohm is all resonance sound added and you do pay a big price. I disagree with Tony' ranking on the Ampohm because of its clear flaws. Complete lack of bass in comparison.

More on this later have to go.
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Oeaohoo
quote
" The haze I feel contributed to a fuller sound by masking the details.."

Have you heard both caps in real time? The resonance you talk about with Ampohm is not in any way even across all frequencies. The fullness is in the middle upper frequencies masking all other frequencies. A high resonance cap like vintage Vishay Ero or Ampohm are adding to the signal but they do not make all frequencies fuller. To me that would be more livable.

I have mentioned in many posts the CAST are not forgiving. I lost about 1/3 of my vinyl when the CAST tweeter caps went in. You could hear groove wear as plain as day. Is this CAST's fault? Is it CAST's fault that a loudness war CD will sound terrible?

I do understand what you are saying though as I owned an older Linn LP12 and traded it off on a VPI. My brain knew the VPI had less resonance but my heart missed the energy and soul of the LP12. I bought another more modern LP12. That your choice of caps before was Ampohm says what you like. The Clarity paper did say 30% of people like high resonance caps.

This thread was done so that one could have an idea of what to expect of caps when you spend your $$$.

If one wants EVERYTHING to sound nice get VSF. Zero downside in my mind! That is why I am sounding out the amp with a possible mixture of VSF and CAST.

I still may end up all CAST but am not afraid to add a VSF to the mix. A flawed cap by comparison but nice flaws.

I would not describe CAST as forward though. Direct, dynamic and accurate maybe?

To be fair to the CAST put on some high quality recording of real instruments and listen in real time vs. the Ampohms. I bet you will REALLY hear the faults of Ampohms. You have went to polar extremes! going from Ampohms to CAST.

In doing these tests I bought several amps started changing caps in the worst sounding amp till it sounded wayyyyy better (even with Jensen) then the best sounding stock vintage and left one side in one EL 84 amp original till just now to go back and revisit. There is nothing better about it anymore no memory nostalgia.

Try going back and forth if you can and report back. I bet you will be frustrated with high resonance now you have heard ultra low.
chadeffect
586 posts
 
I'm with volleyguy1. Oeaohoo, are you sure the forwardness is not just a characteristic of the Almarro?

I have tried the Almarro as standard (new and non modded) and in my system it demonstrated a wiry and white sound.

I wonder if the more natural cap has just let through more of this character? Maybe you need to voice the amp with a darker or fatter sounding cap?

I find the duelund VST and cast to be exquisite caps which don't alter in tone that much as they burn in. Sure they get better, but I found they opened up rather than changed in EQ balance tilt.
oeaohoo
4 posts
 
Wow..Thanks for all the responses guys..

First off, Frederik I reversed the absolute polarity at the speaker terminals and though it did recess the soundstage a tad, it was at the expense of a smearing in the mids and a wrong sounding bass. So I reverted back to normal phase..

Grannyring thanks for your input as well..have followed your postings in other threads..much appreciated..Yes meat on the bones is what I'm on about and I believe the Duelunds are very source dependent..so your sources are probably spot on..

This follows on to what Volleyguy was saying about the Duelund caps showing up faults upstream..

Volleyguy firstly with regards to the Ampohms I was very aware of their mid-centric nature so I ended up getting higher value caps of the order of a factor of 4X or 5X..so instead of the .047uf I ended up with .22uf which shifted the sweet spot down into the lower frequencies giving a more balanced sound..I ended up with a more mellow sound with a stronger but alas flabbier base..

So this brings me to the Duelunds. As I mentioned in my opening post I had changed DACs at roughly the same time as I changed to Duelunds. Initially and after break-in, and while I still had the Ampohms in the Almarro, I sensed a reduced soundstage but better frequency extension with the new Minimax DAC..

However once the Duelunds went in the signature of the Minimax DAC became more pronounced..its mechanical nature with sharper attack and greater pace became apparent and the Duelunds presented this in the most honest fashion..

So to give the Duelunds another + different source, and one I was fairly familiar with, I reverted back to the Bel Canto DAC..the tube compliment in the Almarro was also restored to the same set I had listened to over a couple of years with the Ampohm caps (Sylvania EL84 + RCA 7025 black plates), the tube dampers and isolation went back in..everything back to the way it was..

Well guess what? well you don't have to as you probably already know..the 'body' was back. A full-bodied holographic soundstage was there in abundance..

Yes the over-sampling DAC is not the last word in resolution but it portrays emotion, gestalt, tone like few other DACs..

So there you go the Duelunds are the most honest caps I've ever heard..make sure you've got your sources sorted and the CAST will give you that in spades..

Chadeffect you were right about the CAST letting in more character but it wasn't the Amp's but the DAC's..

The Almarro SEP is a great amp in stock form but having such a short signal path it's very amenable to cap rolling and it can be voiced uniquely with a change of caps..

Jon L on Audiocircle and Head-Fi has the same amp and he has rolled and documented more caps than anyone..you can find his excellent thread here;

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0

So I'm back to the OS Bel Canto DAC..don't know if I'm game on Opamp rolling the Minimax.. I have some Burson Discretes waiting to go into it..but I'm going to put that on hold while I get more enjoyment out of the Duelunds, and clear my back-log of new + required listening CDs..
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,236 posts
 
Finally! UPS will deliver my Duelund CAST capacitors on 11/19/12.Of course I`m very curious to hear how/if they change my speakers(original cap is Auricap) and the overall impact on my system.
Regards,
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