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You pay for it and you get it...

When it comes to large speakers, IME what you get far more than any other attribute, is the sense of scale...which is what seems to delineate the best large speakers from the best small speakers. As an example, yesterday I had the pleasure of listening to the new Wilson Sabrina X’s and the new Wilson Alexx V’s. While both speakers are from the same manufacturer, and both employ what looks like some of the same drivers, this is basically where the similarity ends. The big Wilson is about seven times the price of the small model! So, besides a much larger cabinet and a few extra drivers what do you get for your money...the answer is SCALE!! This is something that unless heard, is a little hard to fathom. The small Sabrina X’s do most things well..and I was very impressed by them, far superior across the board to the original model Sabrina. The Alexx V’s in a very large room ( which is also a MAJOR requirement for them to work their magic, and if one does not have this I believe then this is the wrong speaker for you) are able to throw a sense of scale that has to be heard to be believed. This is what you pay for with these large speakers, and in the Alexx V’s case, what you get. The frequency response of the larger model is not that different in the highs..and in some extent I think the midrange resolution was similar, but the bass is where it’s at...and this is where I think the sense of scale and enormity comes from. On paper, the smaller model can drop down to within probably ten Hz’s of the larger model, yet in a room of commensurate size, the little Sabrina X’s will never be able to portray the scale of the Alexx V’s. This aspect seems to apply to all large speakers in large room vs small/middle size speakers in large rooms.
Question is is it even possible to get scale with a smaller speaker in any size room, so far I have not heard this...anyone else?
128x128daveyf

Showing 4 responses by dletch2

dletch2
455 posts
 
I caution you; if you think that putting any given bookshelf with any given sub is going to get anywhere close to any given larger floor standing speaker, you are sadly mistaken. People who operate from specifications in such decisions are ignorant of real world HiFi system building.


If you don't know what you are doing. If you know what you are doing and use bass management software to do the integration of the mains and subs, then you can place the mains for ideal imaging, and place the subs in the ideal place for smooth bass response. Done right, you are right, it won't be the same. In most cases, you can make it better, especially in the typical untreated room. However, you must do it right, and in all your posts, I have not detected that you have the knowledge, nor equipment to do that.
dletch2
455 posts
 
daveyf OP2,068 posts04-26-2021 12:15amThe room clearly has something to do with the ability of the speaker to portray scale, BUT I think even in the big room, a small speaker, like the Sabrina X that I referenced, cannot portray this.


Volume, frequency response, distortion, and dispersion. Those are your variables. There is no reason a small speaker + subs properly integrated cannot achieve all of those the same as a large speaker, which the large is mainly to support the lowest frequencies. Large speakers with a large driver compliment of the same type may have some characteristics of a line array which impacts dispersion.


The two other variables are the room and you. A large room is going to have reflections that take longer to get to you, usually less issue with first reflections, and longer decay time. The only way to get that in a small room is with acoustic control and signal processing.


The problem comparing the Sabrina and Alexx is they are both meant to be standalone. The Alexx is 92db/w, the Sabrina 87db/w. The Sabrina mid/tweeter is intentionally reduced in efficiency to match the woofer that is also reduced in efficiency in trade-off for a deeper bottom end in the cabinet size of the Sabrina. Even if you add a sub to the Sabrina, you have a good sized, intentional efficiency penalty to overcome with amplification.


I know my headphones don’t do it and the driver to room size could not get any bigger than headphones so maybe it is more phase, room/ time delay.


Headphones are excellent at communicating timing information embedded in the recording, but lack the ability to communicate effects related to frequency response from human body interaction. There are programs for simulating this and other aspects of a speakers in a room. They are used in the recording industry.


dletch2
455 posts
 
@mijostyn, I was going to say it, but I figure I already take enough abuse from people who have blind faith in their lack of bias.  When it hits your ear, you have SPL at a given frequency (and arriving from different angles). No more, no less. You don't know if it came from a small speaker or a large speaker unless you are looking at the speaker. With any of the speakers being discussed, the listening distances in reasonable sized rooms are enough for driver integration. 


There are room effects as @daveyf notes. Large rooms can have reflections far enough apart to be differentiated, but that is not necessarily a good thing. The scale should be in the recording, not artificial from the room.
dletch2
455 posts
 
The scale should be in the recording, not artificial from the room.


I was too brief. I meant you should be recreating the scale inherent in the recording, not creating a false one.


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