@james633 I high pass my dual REL subs. They are limited by the size of my listening room. Nonetheless, I do not believe that even in a much larger room, that they can bring scale like the big speakers. They can bring dynamic impact, but like Douglas Schroeder correctly points out, (large) scale and dynamic impact are not the same thing. |
@james633 Actually I don't believe that subs will get you there. I run dual subs and there is no way i can get this sense of scale. Not even close. My room is a fraction of the size of the demo hall ( that's almost as large as this room was) that I heard the Wilsons' in yesterday, but I have heard smaller speakers with subs ( like what I run) in much larger rooms and they cannot create this aspect. No, there is something else going on.. |
The room clearly has something to do with the ability of the speaker to portray scale, BUT I think even in the big room, a small speaker, like the Sabrina X that I referenced, cannot portray this.
@millercarbon I hear what you say about the ten foot tall artist holding a guitar the size of a string bass...and this is one of the traps that a lot of large speakers fall into. If you read MF’s review of the Chronosonics, he actually mentions this aspect in his conclusion. I am very aware of this problem, and it will disqualify the speaker for me if this is present. The new Alexx V’s were not falling into that trap. I listened carefully to see if i could hear that problem with small ensembles, solo guitar etc., no problem. This makes this particular speaker even more impressive, IMO.
The portrayal of scale is important in the overall sound quality-- as it allows one to more completely believe in the ’illusion’ of the real. Something that is not that obviously missing from many systems, until one hears when it is. IME.
@douglas_schroeder I think you have described the issue well, it doesn’t bode well for smaller rooms and systems, like most of us utilize. |
Keithr, I think you have made a generic statement about Wilson’s that isn’t really the case anymore . If you get a chance to hear the new Alexx V, I think you will retract your post.I would agree that the big Wilson’s from just a few years back were as you described, but IME, this is no longer the case.The horrible Focal ringing tweeter is now long gone, replaced by an excellent tweeter that is smooth and extended. The new cabinets and ability to exactly adjust the drivers is a big plus. Only issue is the ongoing upwards pricing spiral. Plus, a few are an absolute bear to drive, requiring careful amp matching. |
Once again, I think we should stress that we are NOT talking about dynamics here. The sense of scale is the only aspect. I have never heard large scale with any smaller stand mount or smaller floor standing speaker with or without subs, regardless of the room size. The closest I came was with a pair of the Wilson DAW's, but even these were nowhere near what the Alexx V brought to the overall SQ. |
@nationalbar Intersting post. I am not sure you are talking about dynamic expression vs. scale, but if you can get large scale in this way, I would think it also has to do with your very large room. Essentially what you are describing is creating the same aspect of a large floor stander by utilizing the individual parts as a whole. The x-over and other aspects of the integration would seem to me to be a problem, but if you have considered this and adjusted for it.... |
@mijostyn Actually the size of the image is NOT what I am referring to as 'scale'. This is where it becomes difficult to describe what 'scale' is. The size of the image has nothing to do with 'scale'...and yet the imaging of the instruments on the stage can be bigger...or smaller ( depending on the instrument being portrayed). Scale is something that I am beginning to understand is misunderstood by a lot of folks who have never heard it...and is totally understood by those that have. Once you hear it, you know immediately what it is.
My system can portray exacting imaging with excellent depth portrayal and precision of instruments on the stage, BUT it cannot portray scale.
I am pretty sure that the little Sabrina X's cannot portray scale if they are placed into exactly the same room and with the same gear as the Alexx V's. |
@speakermaster. I think you also have to add room size. No room less than probably 15x20 will give you scale, at least IME. |
@dietch2 I’m fairly certain that scale has nothing to do with the recording. (Unfortunately!) I know this as we heard exactly the same recording in the different systems that I discussed above, The Alexx V’s portrayed scale, the Sabrina X’s...did not. |
Ok, now what you state makes some sense. |
@skanda What size is your room? The room I heard the Alexx V's in was about 30' X 45'..with a 10' ceiling. Yes, I think volume also matters.
If your room is say 20' x15' as a minimum, I would think that would work...much less and you are then shoe horning this speaker, and I really do not think shoe horning a large speaker into too small a room is the way to go. Like they say..."horses for courses" is the rule then.
I have a very small room, 10X11 with a 13' vault. This works with my small speakers due to its volume. ( although i cannot portray scale, but I do get great imaging and intimacy). |
