Will China become the poor man’s dealer for high end audio?

@mahgister 

You have decided to become a lawyer for the Chinese ... (illusion of rightness based on book facts - the reality is somewhat different).
Have you been to China? I have been several times...
My post was exclusively applied in nature (was the answer to the question of the author of the branch).
I'm not a chauvinist ... by the way, do you know what the Chinese call tourists? - white monkeys ... (at the same time, many of them themselves were illiterate, they were dirty and a few years ago they wiped their asses with their fingers ... but they were very proud))) ...)
Of course, you can physically make audio in any country - even at the north pole; but this does not happen ... Apparently there is some inertia-tradition ...
For example, the best cars are made in Germany, the best furniture in Italy and Romania...
Asians - their culture is different from another world and has its own specifics (they even hear differently ... they love high frequencies very much ... there is even a term - "Japanese sound") ... this is not an axiom, but a pronounced trend.
Do you know what Peter Qvortrup thinks about Americans? (audio) - this is a country of a child ... people in the mass do not have taste and internal culture (we are talking about both the content of music and the quality of its reproduction ... mainly talking about classical apparently) ... And I'll tell you - yes, this is largely true ... BUT, if you need a good audio system - look for it in America))) .... (you will need to try many combinations of equipment).
Being skilled in this hobby means getting the best possible sound for the least amount of bucks.
1 . China is more of an assembly shop ... but not art level engineering ...
2. Cheap electronics (and the topic of the thread is about this) - a priori, these are bad components, saving literally on everything.

Where to buy cheaper serious high end?? ... it is important not only to buy, but also to hear in advance - that's America ...
at the same time, individual devices can be bought in other countries (but these are big difficulties - travel, customs, delivery - this is the lot of real hobby fans).
In what countries ? - England, Russia, Italy, Japan (artisans), the Netherlands.

Sorry if you misunderstood me...

I am not a LAWYER for china nor a spy... China dont need me.. I have read Joseph Needham when i was young... Then i know that for more than 2 millenias the apex of engineering was in China...

I ONLY tried counterbalance those who suggest that chinese are unable to create engineering and are only able to steal others designs by historical FACTS...

Now with 40 million pianists i doubt that there is no craftmanship at all at the audiophile level because some here decided so and ignored these small audiophile craftmanship ... There is a ton of garbage from China because it was the manufacturing dump of the world... But i dont like IDEOLOGIC CHAUVINISM ... I used history...

I can understand and even approve many or most of your points in your last posts... Try to understand mine...I dont like bashing cultures, being it american, canadian , chinese, russian or muslim one...

Baghad was once the most advanced civilization in the world by far... We must respect that... Thats my point...

Three of the greatest admirals who ever lived for example , one was chinese and toured the world with a fleet so big and so big boat it was never seen like that before and long after but china was not interested to invade the world; the other admiral was Korean and he never loose combat against Japan in thirty years in all cases with inferiority in numbers ...During the second world war, some officers proposed a toast to Togo as the greatest admiral who ever lived after the victory of Pearl Harbour , Togo  stop them right at the proposal because he must have love truth more than nationalism in a way , and said to them that the greatest admiral who ever lived was the korean Yi Sun Sin the mortal foe of Japan ... What a testimony from a Japan warrior to a vouched enemy ... Yi Sun Sin life story is incredible...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Sun-sin

There is an incredible movie you must see :

"The Admiral: Roaring Currents" a fantastic movie based on true events... Incredible events...

The third admiral Themistocles was greek and crush the Persian bigger fleet and changed history at the same time 300 super warrior Spartans stalled 100,000 persians ... We were europeans because of these spartans in a way, if not for them , Greece would have been crush in his course... Nelson was a great admiral or Cook too, but chauvinism and ignorance only make us forgetting about the past and the way civilizations all contributed to mankind ... Thats my point...

I am pretty sure that some great audio product with great engineering exist in china as in Holland or as in Germany and Japan...

@mahgister

You have decided to become a lawyer for the Chinese ... (illusion of rightness based on book facts - the reality is somewhat different).
Have you been to China? I have been several times...
My post was exclusively applied in nature (was the answer to the question of the author of the branch).
I’m not a chauvinist ... by the way, do you know what the Chinese call tourists? - white monkeys ... (at the same time, many of them themselves were illiterate, they were dirty and a few years ago they wiped their asses with their fingers ... but they were very proud))) ...)
Of course, you can physically make audio in any country - even at the north pole; but this does not happen ... Apparently there is some inertia-tradition ...
For example, the best cars are made in Germany, the best furniture in Italy and Romania...
Asians - their culture is different from another world and has its own specifics (they even hear differently ... they love high frequencies very much ... there is even a term - "Japanese sound") ... this is not an axiom, but a pronounced trend.
Do you know what Peter Qvortrup thinks about Americans? (audio) - this is a country of a child ... people in the mass do not have taste and internal culture (we are talking about both the content of music and the quality of its reproduction ... mainly talking about classical apparently) ... And I’ll tell you - yes, this is largely true ... BUT, if you need a good audio system - look for it in America))) .... (you will need to try many combinations of equipment).
Being skilled in this hobby means getting the best possible sound for the least amount of bucks.
1 . China is more of an assembly shop ... but not art level engineering ...
2. Cheap electronics (and the topic of the thread is about this) - a priori, these are bad components, saving literally on everything.

Where to buy cheaper serious high end?? ... it is important not only to buy, but also to hear in advance - that’s America ...
at the same time, individual devices can be bought in other countries (but these are big difficulties - travel, customs, delivery - this is the lot of real hobby fans).
In what countries ? - England, Russia, Italy, Japan (artisans), the Netherlands.

@mahgister 

no no - I understood you well (and for a long time) ... you are a creative person, a dreamer, there are elements of idealism and eclecticism at the same time ... (in general, a real vinaigrette) ...

I didn't say the Chinese weren't capable - I said it probably wouldn't happen anytime soon... And it's better for the music lover to ignore their products... it will save a lot of time and money in the long run... life is too short to waste it on fast food.
If the situation changes, everyone will notice it ... but not yet.

Delete Germany from the list - there is high quality, but it will be very expensive.

2000 years ago engineering? - yes, but then it consisted in the production of paper and gunpowder (the wheel was most likely stolen somewhere) ...))) - this has little to do with audio in the 21st century.

P / S Many people try very hard ... pay for education, read books - this gives them the illusion of good knowledge of the subject - they believe in what they were taught (they paid money - this enhances the effect) ... The prose of life is that very often sources and teachers were erroneous, and sometimes even evil manipulators ... (a vivid example of such a discipline as historical science ... I assure you - very few people really know it, since every political force after the advent and to power - he tries to destroy books about the past and writes his own version in order to legitimize his crimes ... Remember how Hitler burned books and brainwashed his people ... By the way, the most difficult thing is to deceive large masses of eyewitnesses + the regime itself should serve the interests of the population, and not its own pocket ... this situation was in Soviet Russia ... now capitalism is there again - the world has lost the country an example, a bright landmark of the future) ...

first i am perhaps a dreamer but at least i dont use generalities who are going nowhere

I didn’t say the Chinese weren’t capable - I said it probably wouldn’t happen anytime soon... And it’s better for the music lover to ignore their products...

My low cost Hidizs dac is for the ratio price/S.Q. and functionalities very good... Not junk...

2000 years ago engineering? - yes, but then it consisted in the production of paper and gunpowder (the wheel was most likely stolen somewhere) ...))) - this has little to do with audio in the 21st century.

And here you only demonstrated ignorance of history..

Do you think the 7 volumes of Needham works are about the paper, powder and the "wheel an idea stolen somewhere " as you claim to disparage Chinese history with a common place prejudice .. ?

Your bad faith about China is so dense... I will not go on with discussing more...

The prose of life is that very often sources and teachers were erroneous, and sometimes even evil manipulators ... (a vivid example of such a discipline as historical science ...

And now to gain a point in a discussion all Needham works and others historians after him are  mere falsifications  and ideology ?

And i must take your "knowledge" for gold... 😊

Ok enjoy your "lucidity" alone ...

I will stay a dreamer reading books...

«Unlike dog man piss on the spot where they plan to never going back, after all we must piss somewhere » -- Groucho Marx 🤓