Baka1969... sorry about the typo previously btw...
ok, so now I'm thinking that the first chance I get I'll do the easiest of two things: I'll serve my system with my laptop... last year's Dell... and see if I can discern a difference in its audio reproduction and whether or not, using the laptop as a server, I can hear differences in USB cords using the Dell laptop as a server. If you don't like Dells and Windows 7, I'm sure one of my buddies can find a late model Apple laptop for this experiment.
More to the point, I've asked one of my buddies to try to find someone who will loan me their headphone amp and headphones, equal to or better than your rig, and I'll do the same thing with a laptop. This might require some time and horse trading, but I'll see what I can do.
My hunch is that my system will be degraded considerably. Anyway, that's my operating theory. If that's invalidated, I'll be sure to pass it on as well because I will be able to free up some serious cash by selling my speakers, MacMini, and related cables (particularly the USB cables).
As I say, this might take a little time, but I'll at least do the laptop experiment within a couple of weeks (given my work schedule and family routines and scheduling). I don't have equivalent power cords to the Jellyfish... would Synergistic Research T3s and T2s be acceptable for this experiment?
I'll be sure to publish my impressions on Audiogon. I'll also bring in non-audiophiles (who won't know or understand what it is I'm doing) for their impressions as well.
:) listening,
Ed |
Hi Ed,
Before you start let me know what your rig will be. I'll be curious if nothing else. I do have what many will consider as a top tier setup. My laptop is a Gateway WinXP. Not that should make enough of a difference. I've heard setups with win7.
Maybe it could be that the Nordost and Belden Gold USB cable just don't have significant differences? I haven't heard other name brand USBs yet so I won't speak of those.
I think/hope you'll enjoy the headphone syetem. It may not be the same as a two channel one, but can be pretty damn stellar. Let me know.
Ross |
Since I grabbed some unknown red USB off a peg on the wall, I've been quite satisfied. This doesn't mean I wouldn't be more satisfied wth a $250 cable; what it does mean, is that I will never find out. |
This got off track fast. My question was a simple one requiring a simple straight answer to; "can you detect an audible difference (improvement) with a higher quality USB cable when used between a STORAGE DEVICE (EXTERNAL DRIVE) AND A MUSIC SERVER (NO DAC)?". I've concluded no, simply based on the fact the data is not being transferred through a sensitive link between a digital source and DAC or converter. My example is the same as the music files being stored on/retrieved from a drive connected to a computer or on a network. It's not until that data is being transferred between the digital source (music player, streamer,...) and a DAC/converter that the cables quality comes into effect and becomes imperative. That's my unqualified, non-tech, take on this subject. If you have experience to the contrary I would like to hear. |
Ok, I set up the Dell Windows 7 laptop as the server for the Tranquility SE DAC using iTunes as the playback software, and it was as though the oxygen was sucked out of the soul of the system. Yeah, I tried different USB cords, but I couldn't hear a difference. The whole system just went flat, no depth, no point sourcing, no ghostly instrumentation: just flat, dry and soul-less.
I hooked the Tranquility back on to the MacMini 2010 and returned to bliss.
I can truly understand how the difference between USB cords cannot be perceived when using a laptop.
Thanks for the opportunity. I would have never tried this otherwise. It was ugly but worth knowing what I have.
:) listening,
Ed |
To my ears a usb cable is a usb cable. 1's and zero's. |
I switched from iTunes to foobar and I still can't hear the difference between the Belden Gold and Nordost USB cable. |
If you were using itunes on a PC, its no wonder. You will never achieve good SQ this way. You should do more reading on the forums.
Are you now using Kernel Streaming plug-in with Foobar2K on XP or Wasapi on Vista/Win7?
If not, then the same, you will never get it.
What device are you using to get S/PDIF output? Is it a USB DAC? Async USB interface?
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Again this my system:
Computer > WinXP > lossless > iTunes/foobar > USB > Belden/Nordost > Cary Xciter DAC (Jellyfish PC) > Nordost Blue Heaven RCA/Blue Jeans RCA/DIY RCA > three channel beta22 amp with sigma22 power supply/Woo WA6SE (Nordost Blue Heaven PC) > Senn HD800
I have been to meets and friends' home and compared my system to other top tier rigs. With several different sources and DACs. I will say it rivals or surpasses others without issue. I've had more than a couple listen to it. A headphone rig is more than capable of hearing subtle system changes. What I can say is that between the Belden and Nordost USB cables I can't discern any significant difference. |
The original poster's question was
>>Will a higher quality USB cable make a difference when being used between a storage device (bus-powered mobile drive) and a music server (w/o DAC), as opposed to those used between a source (iMac) and USB converter/DAC? Can anyone confirm an audible improvement?<<
and I can't say because I'm using a Ridge Street Audio firewire connection for that between my 2010 MacMini and my Oyen MiniPro 1TB storage HD... but...
I can say that the USB cable between the MacMini and the DAC is an important link.
I just upgraded from a Ridge Street Audio Alethias USB cable to a Ridge Street Audio Enopias, and after about 150 hours of settling in, the change is simply astonishing. The Alethias is a superb USB cable, and the Enopias is all of that and so much more in musicality and detail... all of the good stuff in music and music reproduction.
It's hard to believe that I'm listening to the same system that I had 150 hours ago, with one change: the USB cable. The "wow factor" is huge.
Just my experience,
:) listening,
Ed |
Istanbulu,
OK. I have $1150. to buy a meter of the Enopias!! USB cable.
Other than the Âwow factor, which can be quantified in emotional/psychological termsÂsort of like ÂHallelujah! ÂItÂs A Miracle! ÂThe Cucumber is Scared With A Religious Symbol!Â): what electrical/physical/scientific data can you provide to those of us who may want to consider becoming owners of this USB cable? |
It makes some sense that since this is STREAMING and not standard USB transfer it could be subject to some "non-1-0" effects such as timing variation, power interference, etc... So, OK it is plausible that different USB cables sound different from one another.
Here's what makes no sense: The companies who make high end USB cables cannot possibly be designing them to address "timing variation." NO ONE really knows exactly what is going on with timing variation within a USB cable, how to measure it, or how to make a cable to address it. RFI and power issues maybe- but these companies are just altering the conductors in the cable (silver, copper), shielding, etc... based on their design of analog cables. So any difference in sound quality between cables should essentially be random.
Then you read stuff like "using our special blend of materials" or "everything in our cables makes a difference." And even worse, stuff like:
"switching to the ($200 USB) cable increased the soundstage depth and layering. Moving to the ($600 USB) cable was even more revelatory with more top end air and sparkle. But switching in the top of the line cable caused the boundaries of the room to truly disappear."
If the cable companies have no idea what they are doing when it comes to USB cables- and they don't because they can't possibly - then differences should not depend on price or on the use of exotic materials that make analog cables sound good. |
Hi Vvinc... this is my suggestion if you are interested in Ridge Street USB cables... call Robert at RSA... describe your system (particularly your digital front end as well as its playback software, your music preferences, and see what he has to say. In my experience, he is a very knowledgeable, candid, and honest person.
If I recall correctly, and I think I am accurate in this otherwise I wouldn't mention it, Robert has a trial period for customer satisfaction: (my understanding is that) you don't like the cable and you haven't let your dog chew on it, you get your money back. One note of caution, on my system Robert advised 100 hours of break-in/settling in, but that was very optimistic. My system with the Enopias took at least 175 hours (maybe more) to achieve its capabilities in a sustained and repeatable manner. Now that it has hundreds of hours on it, it is a remarkable performer, and I wouldn't consider selling it. I have his Alethias USB cables on two other systems which I purchased used on Audiogon and even with them it took considerable time. In fact, it's my belief that one sale took place because the seller didn't wait long enough for the cable to achieve its place in the system. One day, while playing it, everything snapped into focus and has stayed there.
So, bottom line, call Robert and discuss your system and listening habits with him. If he thinks his cables, whether Poiema, Alethias, or Enopias, will be or won't be a good fit, he'll say so.
As some sage said long ago, "the proof is in the pudding," so take a listen and decide for yourself (but remember my cautions about the settling in/break in period which can be quite extensive),
:) listening,
Ed |
"So, OK it is plausible that different USB cables sound different from one another."
If there are any measurable "speed" differences in cables that would cause timing issues the difference would probably so small compared to any clocking on the host or re-clocking in an adaptive USB based DAC. With an synchronous DAC it wouldn't matter with all other things being equal (clocking into DAC chip, etc.).
And, then even if there is measurable jitter for whatever reason, how much jitter is needed for it to be audible using strict ABX testing? Not the single person swapping cables and thinking what they recall hearing minutes ago is accurate.
|
I've been reading about this, and im planning to make some tests to see if i really notice a big difference using expensive cables. There is a good thread at HF about this. |
@Chatta... everything about cables is system dependent. Tell us your experience; I for one would like to know.
:) listening,
Ed |
I had a chance to listen for quite some time to a dealers setup (he used me as a guinea pig) while switching between a cheapo, decent computer(gold plated connectors) and a high end - ish 125$ cable (all 3 foot) linking a iMac to a ayre qx9 dac, ayre amps, and very nice speakers (devore??, I forget). Player was ammrra with itunes. Dealer let me pick a music selection that I know well and set to looping the section and running the pause/cable swap every couple repetitions. he was very fast and seamless. I could not see what he did or even if he switched cables every time. Unless he lies (and I do not believe that at all) the cheapo to both the decent and fancy was a easily detectable difference. I could not tell the difference from decent to the fancy no matter what. spent at least an hour with this nonsense and I was able to call the cable upon testing between the good ones and the cheapo. For me on that system the high end was not worth the money but the fact that I could hear any differences at all was a surprise. Yet another thing I dont understand but acknowledge. |
Digital is digital. 1's are 1's and 0's are 0's.
It will work or it wont, if there is a poor connection you will hear it. Don't be an AudioPhool. |
@Docks, I'm gonna quote Judge Belvin Perry (Casey Anthony trial) regarding your 6-14-11 post:
"What we don't know is a wide universe of things we don't know."
If you don't have the experience (aka experiential knowledge), Docks, why post a comment other than to exercise your keyboard and typing digits ("digital is digital")?
Get the audio experience of trying several HQ USB cables on a HQ system, and get back to us, & don't forget...
:) listening,
Ed |
I tried a us30 cable and a us150 USB cable. Sad to say, the difference is very very noticeable. The more pricey cable is fuller, more 3 dimensional and just more flesh out midrange.
I bought the us150 cable and couldn't go back. |
which 150 dollar usb cable is that? Pls share. |
Thanks for going the extra little bit to help our economy (or your ecomony, they all need help). That's all you did unless you forgot to mention it was a blind test and you picked the correct cable 19 or 20 times out of 20 attempts to make it statistically valid. Sighted tests don't mean diddly. Do a little research on how what your brain can and can't do with audio frequencies, especially after a second or so of hearing something. |
I'm still very skeptical about getting a high dollar USB cable and the audible improvement it can make. I was looking at the Virtue Audio Nirvana USB cable or the Pangea USB-PC cable. I can't go over $50 to pay for USB cable even though the Pangea USB-AG USB cable looks like a lot of bang for the buck as well. Anyone try these cables or are thinking about getting them? |
I have had differences. The music was just more clear with the better cable. But I used a cheap cable and then switched to a kimber, never really tried anything else. A good belkin or any cable with adequate gauge and good connectors should be fine. That is just what I think. I wouldn't think silver, copper etc would matter as long as it has good connectors and no packet loss. |
Just curious given the talk of laptop vs pc vs mac vs mac mini, has anyone tried running osx on pc platform, I.e a hackintosh.
Are sound differences dependant on HW implementatios or OS sound pipelines?
I've got a really nice silent i3-2100t win7 setup that I am thinking of making dual boot osx/win7. |
