I've noticed a significant difference to the upside with a Ridge Street Audio 9 pin firewire cable between the peripheral HD and the MacMini music server. Richer, fuller, more complete sense of the music than the stock Oyen 9 pin firewire cable (which is very good imho)... this even using full memory mode using Pure Music.
Just my experience,
:) listening,
Ed |
I'd like to quote Herman because I agree entirely:
>>...the bottom line always ends up that you have try it for yourself.
A thousand more people could post with their findings but you still wouldn't know until you tried it.<<
I agree. Give different cables a try. The tuition is not that expensive! And the point is you will educate your ears when you do try these things out.
And realize that USB and firewire cables do need time to break-in and settle-in (but that's a whole new can of worms!).
And don't forget to restart your computer every once in awhile to reset. Makes a difference in playback.
:) listening,
Ed |
Br3098... please, please, please speak from audio experience. i.e. actually using different USB cables on a quality DAC with a quality computer such as the MacMini.
Give it a try... actually build some real listening experience with this equipment and cabling... and then come back to us with your listening experience on your own system, with your own DAC, your own computer, and your own music... not your book learning and theory derived thereof.
I respect learning from the academy. I am a product of it and an active member of it myself. But it has its limits, and this is one.
If I sound annoyed, I am.
I am frankly so tired of "authorities" who have not taken the time to gain their own audio experience misleading newbies with the "truthiness" of their book learning and university degrees on chat forums such as this one and in other places.
You wrote:
>>all of my 30+ years experience in the physical sciences, data collection and computer systems design leads me to believe otherwise.<<
Listening experience matters. This is not an article of belief or faith as in your statement >>leads me to believe otherwise<<.
:) listening,
Ed |
Br3098...personally I think it's hilarious that you would lecture Steve Nugent in your post... especially suggesting that Steve is one of those who >>...has to guess<<.
My suggestion to anyone reading these posts is to pay your own tuition (it's very modest compared to Koegz's suggestion of >>putting their [your] money in the best equipment they [you] can afford in the body of their [your] system! Body= speakers, amp, line stage and dac.<<): try several modestly priced, reputable USB cables... get them previously owned and used on Audiogon for a fraction of their original cost... and decide what works for you.
Listen with your ears, not your eyes and reading, and you will find what satisfies you.
The bottom line is that some of the above posters are suggesting that you can use just about any industrial USB cable out there... ones used for printers and any other utilitarian purpose... and you will receive the same musical qualities that a more expensive audio USB cable will provide. That might turn out to be the case, but it's not my experience and not the experience of many other DAC-based music lovers.
I agree with Steve Nugent; some of the arguments made in this thread are >>tired<< and I might add, tiring.
My only concern in this is the misleading (and disinformation) of those new to computer-based audio, specifically USB DACs. There's many promises made out there by DAC designers and manufacturers, and there are many adequate, good, very good, and outstanding designs. Newbies will not realize the full potential of the DAC of their choice without careful experimentation to find the cabling, particularly USB cabling, that will maximize the musicality of their chosen DAC source.
:) listening,
Ed |
Over the years, the basis of my listening experience with USB cables is reflected in this incomplete list: Belden, Cryoparts, Locus Design, WireWorld Starlight, stock Oyen Minipro USB cable, dbaudiolabs The Essential Signature, Ridge Street Audio Poiema!!! (two different versions), Ridge Street Audio Alethias (two different versions), Virtue Audio, and tomorrow I'll receive a Ridge Street Audio Enopias from Robert.
My experience is that the use each of these cables results in a significantly different audio experience depending upon which of my three systems they are on, which DAC is being used, and which MacMini (2,1 and 4,1; how much memory each has, and whether they have the stock HD or SSD drive) and what peripheral hard drive is being used and its cabling.
Over the years, my experience is that selection of USB cables matters.
IÂve gained this experience by buying different cables, breaking them in properly, listening to a variety of music through them for extended periods of time, taking notes, listening with other music lovers, comparing, contrasting, and using them on three significantly different systems over which I have complete control. I have my favorites on my systems right now, and IÂll see what the Enopias has to offer in the weeks to come.
My suggestion to those audiophiles new to USB DAC-based music systems is for them to listen to several different USB audio cables and determine what satisfies and pleases.
Your experience might be similar to mine (in which there are large differences to be heard and experienced), or similar to Baka1969 (in which, evidently, no differences were detected), or uniquely your own.
In addition, I can say, based on my experience, that the more the cable is played/used, the more of its inherent qualities are revealed. A simple 1 hour playing/listening will not reveal enough information. Why this time is required (in my experience, sometimes hundreds of hours), I have no idea, but on my systems it is very obvious.
One final comment: when someone contributes to these discussions who has "skin" in the game, e.g. Steve Nugent, I think this makes a difference than say my commentary.
I'm a person who loves music and wants a reasonably good quality reproduction of that music.
Within the limitations of my time and budget, I gain experience by trying out equipment and cabling. I gain perspectives and ideas by "listening" to others with greater knowledge and experience than I have.
When someone has their business and their professional reputation in this adventure, that's quite another thing. Audio is a very small community. Should Steve or someone similar in the engineering, manufacturing, and sales of these devices write something that is not accurate or valid, they pay with their livelihood and reputation. If I say something inaccurate or ignorant, I can apologize and move on without much impairment.
Paying attention to those who have their "skin" in the game, imho is a bit different. After all, contributors like Steve N. could just let audiophools blabber on in ignorance and misinformation and in the process mislead those new to audio.
jmo ymmv
:) listening,
Ed |
Baka1969... I'm interested to hear your experience.
One of the things I've discovered is that it takes some considerable time for an audio USB cable to settle in and reveal its inherent qualities. For example, some cables attached to my MacMini/DAC combo that seemed pretty harsh and sibilant in the beginning hours, over considerable playing time lost that attribute and revealed others more pleasing.
Why? Do not know, but I've heard changes like that with USB cables many times.
:) listening,
Ed |
Ok, I set up the Dell Windows 7 laptop as the server for the Tranquility SE DAC using iTunes as the playback software, and it was as though the oxygen was sucked out of the soul of the system. Yeah, I tried different USB cords, but I couldn't hear a difference. The whole system just went flat, no depth, no point sourcing, no ghostly instrumentation: just flat, dry and soul-less.
I hooked the Tranquility back on to the MacMini 2010 and returned to bliss.
I can truly understand how the difference between USB cords cannot be perceived when using a laptop.
Thanks for the opportunity. I would have never tried this otherwise. It was ugly but worth knowing what I have.
:) listening,
Ed |
Bafa1969, I'm wondering how things are going with your listening comparisons (although it might be a bit early to ask).
The significant thing that attracted my attention regarding your setup (as described above) was your computer source. Most computer-based music enthusiasts that I converse with suggest the avoidance of laptop computers as music servers. Now the reasons for this have been explained to me extensively, but IÂm afraid many of them are currently beyond my Âken and I'm very reluctant to post things I don't fully understand. Perhaps someone here (Steve N, perhaps) can address this for our benefit. My "takeaway" understanding of this has to do essentially with noise, other applications competing for memory and hd action, etc.
Having said that, my thoughts are that if you were to switch from a laptop to a Mac Mini (either a 2,1 or 4,1 with Pure Music as the playback software in memory mode) that you would begin to hear the nuances which different USB cables afford. My suggestion is to find someone locally with a Mini and a peripheral HD for music file storage, invite them over with the computer equipment, and take a listen for yourself. That should illuminate things far more for you.
Another factor that might be affecting your experience of USB cabling has to do with playback into headphones. I have nothing against them whatsoever, but IÂm sure that most people would agree that the headphone listening experience and its aural dynamics are much different than the experience of listening to music from speakers in a properly setup listening room.
If you could take your computer and DAC and USB and interconnect cables to someone who has a good setup with quality speakers, you probably would begin to notice differences in the listening experience as well as those that relate to the USB cables themselves.
I fully realize that this post might sound to many readers and to you to be a Âred-herring approach to your questions and interest, but I assure you I have no need or interest in distracting you from your concerns.
I simply think that these two factors, your computer source and your headphones, might be affecting the discernible differences in USB cables.
So, in short, what I am saying is that your listening experience with USB cables is probably accurate: for you listening to your system, there is no difference between USB cables, but that might be because of the computer source and the use of headphones.
I hope this makes sense and is helpful. If anyone could please add their insights as to why the selection of computers makes a difference to the experience of DAC-based music, that would be most helpful.
:) listening,
Ed |
Baka1969... sorry about the typo previously btw...
ok, so now I'm thinking that the first chance I get I'll do the easiest of two things: I'll serve my system with my laptop... last year's Dell... and see if I can discern a difference in its audio reproduction and whether or not, using the laptop as a server, I can hear differences in USB cords using the Dell laptop as a server. If you don't like Dells and Windows 7, I'm sure one of my buddies can find a late model Apple laptop for this experiment.
More to the point, I've asked one of my buddies to try to find someone who will loan me their headphone amp and headphones, equal to or better than your rig, and I'll do the same thing with a laptop. This might require some time and horse trading, but I'll see what I can do.
My hunch is that my system will be degraded considerably. Anyway, that's my operating theory. If that's invalidated, I'll be sure to pass it on as well because I will be able to free up some serious cash by selling my speakers, MacMini, and related cables (particularly the USB cables).
As I say, this might take a little time, but I'll at least do the laptop experiment within a couple of weeks (given my work schedule and family routines and scheduling). I don't have equivalent power cords to the Jellyfish... would Synergistic Research T3s and T2s be acceptable for this experiment?
I'll be sure to publish my impressions on Audiogon. I'll also bring in non-audiophiles (who won't know or understand what it is I'm doing) for their impressions as well.
:) listening,
Ed |
The original poster's question was
>>Will a higher quality USB cable make a difference when being used between a storage device (bus-powered mobile drive) and a music server (w/o DAC), as opposed to those used between a source (iMac) and USB converter/DAC? Can anyone confirm an audible improvement?<<
and I can't say because I'm using a Ridge Street Audio firewire connection for that between my 2010 MacMini and my Oyen MiniPro 1TB storage HD... but...
I can say that the USB cable between the MacMini and the DAC is an important link.
I just upgraded from a Ridge Street Audio Alethias USB cable to a Ridge Street Audio Enopias, and after about 150 hours of settling in, the change is simply astonishing. The Alethias is a superb USB cable, and the Enopias is all of that and so much more in musicality and detail... all of the good stuff in music and music reproduction.
It's hard to believe that I'm listening to the same system that I had 150 hours ago, with one change: the USB cable. The "wow factor" is huge.
Just my experience,
:) listening,
Ed |
Hi Vvinc... this is my suggestion if you are interested in Ridge Street USB cables... call Robert at RSA... describe your system (particularly your digital front end as well as its playback software, your music preferences, and see what he has to say. In my experience, he is a very knowledgeable, candid, and honest person.
If I recall correctly, and I think I am accurate in this otherwise I wouldn't mention it, Robert has a trial period for customer satisfaction: (my understanding is that) you don't like the cable and you haven't let your dog chew on it, you get your money back. One note of caution, on my system Robert advised 100 hours of break-in/settling in, but that was very optimistic. My system with the Enopias took at least 175 hours (maybe more) to achieve its capabilities in a sustained and repeatable manner. Now that it has hundreds of hours on it, it is a remarkable performer, and I wouldn't consider selling it. I have his Alethias USB cables on two other systems which I purchased used on Audiogon and even with them it took considerable time. In fact, it's my belief that one sale took place because the seller didn't wait long enough for the cable to achieve its place in the system. One day, while playing it, everything snapped into focus and has stayed there.
So, bottom line, call Robert and discuss your system and listening habits with him. If he thinks his cables, whether Poiema, Alethias, or Enopias, will be or won't be a good fit, he'll say so.
As some sage said long ago, "the proof is in the pudding," so take a listen and decide for yourself (but remember my cautions about the settling in/break in period which can be quite extensive),
:) listening,
Ed |
@Chatta... everything about cables is system dependent. Tell us your experience; I for one would like to know.
:) listening,
Ed |
@Docks, I'm gonna quote Judge Belvin Perry (Casey Anthony trial) regarding your 6-14-11 post:
"What we don't know is a wide universe of things we don't know."
If you don't have the experience (aka experiential knowledge), Docks, why post a comment other than to exercise your keyboard and typing digits ("digital is digital")?
Get the audio experience of trying several HQ USB cables on a HQ system, and get back to us, & don't forget...
:) listening,
Ed |
