Why the volume drop for this .5mv cartridge


This is somewhat related to the "Do I need a SUT" thread, but I didn't want to muddy that.

I've got two cartridges: an Ortofon 2M Black; a Grado Statement Master 1.  The first is MM with 5mv output, the second is MI with .5mv output.

My phono pre is a Rogue Audio Triton, with 40db, 55db, 60db, and 65db gain settings.  That feeds a Schiit Ragnarok which feeds some KEF LS50s.  The Ragnarok appears to have a linear volume control.

I have the phono pre's gain set for 40db with the Ortofon, and the ideal listening volume is with the Ragnarok's volume control set to "12:00".  With the Grado, I have the gain set for 65db and to match the output volume of the Ortofon for the same material, I've got to set the Ragnarok's volume just short of "3:00".

Robert Harley's "Taking the Guesswork out of Phonostage Gain" offers an algorithm that puts the ideal gain (for 1v output) for the Ortofon at 46db and for the Grado, 66db.

The  "KAB PHONO PREAMP PARAMETER COMPUTER" puts the gain for the Ortofon and Grado at 36 and 56, respectfully.

It seems like Harley's offering better matches what's going on in my system, as 55db is just too low for the Grado and my amp.

To my naive mind, I would think that if I have the phono pre's gains matched to the output of the cartridges, I should have the same output volume to the Ragnarok, and thus the same volume level settings from the amp.  Capacitance and resistance loading is the same for both (50pf and 47k).

Am I missing something?  This is relevant as I prefer the Grado, but I'm just about out of headroom with that amp.  I'm wondering what's wrong - my Grado, my phono pre, the Ragnarok, or my thinking.  Or some combination thereof.

I don't recall that the output volume difference was this great on the Sphinx that the Ragnarok replaced, but I may not be remembering correctly (probably 18 months ago).  The Rag's input impedance is 10k, and is set to the highest output gain (26db).




tlainhart

Showing 2 responses by folkfreak

A 10x difference in output voltage should correspond to 20dB difference in gain (hence the results you get from both gain calculators say to add 20dB between the two)

It may be that the differences you are seeing are simply down to tolerances between the two cartridges -- output specs are pretty approximate so if the Ortofon is a little high and the Grado a little low ...

Your bigger issue is that you don't have enough gain to drive the integrated amp. Fact is 26dB is standard power amp gain so in effect you are getting nothing from the pre-amp stage. In other words the Ragnarok really wants to see that 1V -- I'm surprised the Ortofon performs as well as it does especially as the KEFs are not exactly sensitive speakers

Short of a change to a different pre/power combo or a SUT at the front end I'm not sure I have any answers
@tlainhart 1V is the rated input to drive the Ragnarok to full output - note how in the specs here they are all referenced to 1V input. As I noted you are in effect using a passive pre into the 26dB power amp stage so getting no real preamp gain
http://www.schiit.com/products/ragnarok