Why the fascination with subwoofers?

+1 @millercarbon The wide unknown is a fun place. Someone was asking about a cheap good crossover, check out Mini DSP. With a digital crossover you get exact slopes and have the option of doing room correction with Room EQ Wizard and can have even more fun with Multi Sub Optimizer. I prefer a Mini DSP with IIR over FIR filters as the IIR filters operate at 24/96.

I’ve heard my Magnepan 20.1 speakers full range with no subwoofers and they sound great. I added two properly integrated stereo subs and listened a year like that and it was even better. I added two more subs and measured/corrected the room and the “WoW” happened. Nothing is boomy, just accurate full range bliss. I don’t have to turn up the system nearly as loud to hear full range. In the end I’ve spent almost as much in subs as my mains which by all accounts are SOTA. That’s how important I feel the lower octaves are in music.

@noble100

     Nice thread everyone. Sorry my work is crazy so I don’t check the site as often as I would like. Just had my daughter graduate college yesterday and she did it in three years with a foreign exchange in Japan. Pretty excited about that and the fact she has an second interview with a Fortune 500 company Tues in New York, fingers crossed!!

Here are responses to your questions below Tim and a few notes about setting up my system with Magnepan 20.1 mains. 

hifidream,  

I forgot to ask a few questions about your custom dba system in my previous post. I hope you don't mind, I'm just curious about a few things:

1. What brand and model were the initial subs:
 - Kinergetics SW-800 subs (next to my 20.1’s - five 10” Seas subwoofers in their own non-ported enclosures) driven by a Pass X-250. I researched a ton and wish there were some threads like this when I was planning my system. I looked for five years before finding the Kinergetics online used. I bought them and owned them for another four years before I could play them. 

2. What brand and model were the last 2 subs you added to your system?
- SVS SB-16 Ultra subs (2 enclosed mosfet powered subs). Funny story, I turned them on low without optimizing them and played the music from the Gladiator and the water on my table rippled, house creaked, I jumped out of my couch because my gut wrenched, and my wife leapt out of the shower telling me to unplug the system as thunder just shook the house! Ergo too much base :)

3. Do you operate your 20.1s full-range or limit their bass output?
- I operate them full range. I don’t want to loose all that beautiful sound. 

4. What upper cutoff frequency are your subs set at?
Simple answer around 80Hz at the highest. Each of my 8 channels has 12 biquad active filters created by Multi Sub Optimizer (MSO) inputted into my Mini DSP working at 24/96, details below. 
- In order to maximize the accuracy by eliminating room nodes, and best integrate with the 20.1s I measured the speakers individually with Room EQ Wizard (REW) and the room from my listening position with my Earthworks microphone. I used all the data and followed the instruction manual in MSO plugging in my data and adding more filters as I started to understand how it works and listening to the results. MSO suggests running the subs full range and I was surprised how high they actually ended up crossing over to counter room nodes outside of the subwoofer region. 

So I’ve listened to my 20.1s without subs and while big and dynamic they didn’t give me what I heard when I played in an orchestra. Added the Kinergetics and the sound was close but standing waves were messing with the room (it was a small place). We moved into a nice big apartment  and I got the SVS hooked up and did my room correction and all I can say is OMG. It’s the closest thing to my live playing experience I’ve ever heard. 

Yes there is sound in those very low octaves, organ notes, tympani, and the low rumble of the orchestra in full swing. You can feel it in your body. . . (I could hear most of the music in my 20.1s but not feel it). No one listening to my system can articulate there is one subwoofer much less 4 of them or 6 if you count the Maggie’s. They integrate perfectly and seamlessly. It’s not about loudness but accuracy and I agree with many who have spoken to poor base integration ruining their set up. The one comment I get when people come hear my set up is how “clear” it is. This is the sign that everything has been set up correctly. It’s not an easy thing but the reward is awesome. 

I do bump up the subs 5db for movies and the last time I had my dad and daughter’s boyfriend over for an action movie they jumped out of their seats on an explosion and move their heads out of the way when there are gun shots (they didn’t even know they were doing it because they were so into the movie.) . . . The anamorphic 11x5ft 4K image helps too. It’s a lot of fun.

Thanks,
Steve

Hi Everyone,

     I just wanted to let you know I’ve just finished setting up my system with my new dspNexus crossover which operates 8 channels at 192K. Each channel has extremely high quality DACs and the DSP I was able to attain with my subs is like nothing I’ve ever seen. I’ve got the mains running full range and four subs measured with Room EQ Wizard and processed the results with Multi Sub Optimizer and entered the 12 biquads per channel generated into Audio Weaver which is completely customizable to any system design you have. The team at Danville Signal Processing has been awesome with their assistance. My stereo has never sounded better. The realism of the music is eerily real. This is a great addition for anyone wanting to take things to the ultimate level of signal processing with accurate powerful base. 

DSP Results

Filter Results

Thanks,

Steve

Hi @kennymacc 

    Just curious, why don’t you like them? I have 20.1 Maggie’s which are “full range” but they can’t touch my system with my fully integrated subs. It’s breathtaking, visceral, and seamless. I will say that before I had four and used multi sub optimizer it was a challenge to try to integrate just two for me. I had room nodes so bad my Pass X-250 would draw so much current trying to play the subs “loud” enough that I’d blow the fuse, lol. You can’t overpower science. . . The advice here and the effort is well worth it to integrate subs into any system in my opinion, even if it is just to offset room issues. 
 

Thanks,

Steve 

@soundsrealaudio Haha, love it.  
@kennymacc - Totally understandable, it’s a pain to integrate subs and if not done correctly can make things much worse than enhance the music. 

- Steve