Being an audiophile is fine. Being a "music listener"...well..... |
Mapman, it took me a few years to minimize the box resonance from the boxes. Simply, I used test tones with a microphone/spl meter, my feel of the box and my ears, as well as a wide range of music to come up with my mods. I originally started with a brace at the front corners of the bass horns. I than used some resonant free aluminum bars(found at a surplus parts place in town),applying them one pair at a time. Until they passed my criteria. The wife is ok with them, because of the paint and vinyl tile I have used to make them room friendly. Some of these bars face horizontal,some vertical. I had done another pair prior, but overdamped the boxes. Not much more to say. MrD |
Horns are great-My current speaker set up is Klipsch Lascalas, cabinets modified to reduce box resonance and coloration, as are the horns as well modified to reduce the same. I also added 50 lbs to each box by building bases for additional mass and to raise them to a better listening height. I use a pair of powered subs from 50 hz on down. I have owned many speakers in my time, and have felt that each system/room had great characterists, with some flaws. I have also listened to many systems beyond that. I listen at 100 db often, and peaks go beyond that. I have found a system that brings me closer to the musical event at my respected price range, and I do not look back. I choose to not use tubes(unlike many tube users), because I have found neutral ss gear I can listen to for hours on end. My system has great rhythm, beat and tempo, which to me is most important in creating the reality thing. Spatial imaging is excellent with the speakers disappearing much of the time. Dynamic range is awesome. This is the difference between the soft and loud passages of music, relative to the systems noise floor, which is QUIET. As the recording gets better, so does the system. Listening to Patricia Barber and recordings of this nature are 2nd to none. A recording such as Jethro Tull's Aqualung is not as dynamic or wide range, but I hear the bands coherence in playing together, which is what I listen for before anything else. My system does this wonderfully, as well as all those other "audiophile " things. I believe everyone should get a listen to a properly designed horn system and a room that can handle them. Thank you for reading my rant.....Dan |
Mapman, to answer the last part of your question. The resultant sound is to my ears musically perfect. The Lascala was designed to to be listened to from very very far away. I listen about 14 feet away, which at the volume levels I like to listen, I was hearing the boxes, which now I do not. Very clean and quick throughout the spectrum. MrD |
Sebrof...by saying you might go back to non horns tells me that something is not right. Klipschorns work in a corner for bass output and extension, but I prefer non corner placed speakers, saying I like the Lascala over the Klipschorn. IMHO. Thanks,Mrd |
This is why I do not spend a lot of time with forums...We are a unique crowd, with so much passion and opinion. We need to all get along. We are all after the same thing. We are all looking for our own interpretation of what the musical truth is. We are all trying to capture that musical nirvana. Taking recorded music and turning it into a live performance....It is not easy..... |
Hey everyone, MrD again. This thread intrigues me so much, because I really love my set up. Yes, I own horns. I have spent many years buying and selling, trying this and trying that, listening to this and listening to that. From these experiences, I have determined what I want a system to do for me. My system is not for background music. My system is to transport me to an illusion of "what I think" is the real thing. Be it rock, classical or jazz. A piano must sound like a piano,sax like a sax,violin like a violin,drums like drums, voices clear and articulate. Can I follow the artistry of each and every musician, starting and stopping on a dime. Does Berry Oakley, Butch Trucks and JJ Johanson carry the tempo and rhythm to make my feet tap. To make my head nod up and down. When Duane and Dicky are strutting their stuff and Gregg is pulling it all together, I am in the audience. They are playing for me. My system has disappeared and has created a lifelike representation of being there. Sound stage has height, width and depth. From an incredibly black, noiseless background, to amazing shadings of micro and macro dynamics, this is what recorded music should sound like. My speakers were designed by a brilliant designer and engineer, for "live sound" reinforcement. I feel blessed that I was able to afford them, to have a room that can accommodate them and to have a wife that puts up with all of it. Thanks again for listening to my rant.... |
A cd recording from 1984 on the Denon/Nippon Columbia Japan label : Eddie Gomez : 38C38-7189 - 9 tracks - A recording , inho, where many systems fail.....it is jazz and has it all.....I love my horns ! |
Eldartford. What resonances are you speaking of ? I ask you all. Does your system have qualities of a live ,unamplified venue ? Live music does not "damp" anything. I am not clear of what you speak..... I truly believe many of you horn haters have not heard a "proper" horn set up. A shame, really.... |
I am responding to a few of you. My system sounds wonderful on all music. I compare what I hear to live unamplified music, as stated previously. I particularly mentioned this recording because many systems I have listened to (I bring this with me) fall apart in one or more ways. I will tell you I have heard horns and horn based systems I did not like. I have heard planar and box type speakers I have liked. I have owned many of these types. I have not said I love horns. I have said I love "my" horns. The Klipsch Lascala. The fact that they found their way very quickly into peoples homes for music listening is what got me interested in them many years ago. My 1st Klipsch Heritage speaker experience(a long long time ago) was Khorns with Marantz 9s/7C in a room properly dimensioned. Sources at the time were vinyl and 15ips master tapes. Loved the musicality and the voicing. The full range bass horn was more melodic than anything I had heard before( in a 20x26 ) room. It is an experience I will not forget. My box speakers(B&WDM6,AR3A as examples) sounded constricted and ill defined. My DQ10s imaged better than the Khorns, but everything else seemed lifeless. These Khorns were owned by a college professor of mine, and we spent a lot of time swapping equipment around at his place. I never had good corners for Khorns. As an audiophile, I have to say I did not like any speaker in or near a corner. Then Paul Klipsch designed, at least for me, his best design. So I am saying again, I love MY horns. I will be happy to continue any further discussion or debate but I must go... cheers. |
Weseixas, I find problems with the stock Lascala, mostly box resonance of the doghouse(a Klipsch forum term for woofer housing). I have completely eliminated this problem, which I can tell you is present in your friends units. The new Lascala II uses a beefier cabinet to get rid of this coloration. I talk about it in an earlier post. Tubes are from a by gone era, but look at the popularity and, resurgence, of the topology. The Heritage series was ahead of its time, and many designs have not caught up. Let me also say I have owned MLogans and have much experience with ESL63s. Nice sound. But they are congested in their dynamics, "at least to me ". Now what will they do at 100db and above? Once again, this is all based on my ears, then my heart...Thanks.... |
The only horn speaker that I honestly would change to, given my room dimensions, would be the Jadis Eurythmie. I was the chosen fellow, for 3 days doing the demos at the '96 Stereophile show in NY at the Waldorf. I also got to hear them for an extended time period in a home environment, properly set up. As far as the Quad /sub system you feel would walk all over the Lascalas, let me remind you I listen at over 100 db and peaks above regularly. I do not think the panels would handle it for long. I am enjoying our differences and respect your opinions. As you said earlier, this is a very personal topic. Let us all enjoy ! |
Weseixas, I am not sure if you are saying to me your ears are "better" than mine, that I play loud to compensate other areas of deficiency. Let me just say...to each his own. I understand dynamics very well, and live music, both amplified and unamplified. I do wish you the best and just hope your system can make your feet tap the way mine does for me. Listening to a high end speaker in a room with other speakers present,you tend to hear those other speakers as well(Lyric). Time to move on.........Thank you |
Weseixas, Sorry for the misunderstanding. It is all good. |
While all you guys have been posting, my feet have been tapping.... |
Why can't we all accept that 'we like what we like'. Many of us have been around the block and have much experience in listening to many different kinds of systems. There are those that have not. I have never said that everyone needs to go out a buy a pair of Lascalas. Only that I enjoy them and feel they do what I want them to do for the price and for the room. I will not bash planars or box speakers because many are very good, as well as, different strokes for different folks. I have left so many forums because this bashing continues......I do not want to leave this one, but honestly....I am sure I will be missed ! |
Mapman, I could not have said it better...... |
There seems to be an ignorance and artificial intelligence by some of the folks here. We are talking about recorded music here and the systems we acquire to bring us closer to the truth(what ever this truth is). We are all opinionated, but when when someone calls another an oxymoron(Unsound to me on another thread)it is time for me to walk away. Forums such as this are, imo, to reach out and share our experiences and maybe help one another achieve greater listening satisfaction. This is not what is going on here. So with this I say good bye. It has been my pleasure to share with some of you, and my disgust with others. MrD |
Unsound, I am sorry as well, but I am done....... |
The three top Klipsch Heritage models are wonderful. The Klipshorn, Lascala and Belle all deserve to be listened to. The midrange horn throats are properly designed and do not give you that "honk" sound that you might get from Altecs(at a reasonable listening distance). My experience with Altecs and many other horn designs with large throats(not all)is that you need to be a good distance away from them. It is unfair to say pass up Klipsch. Many people, including myself, enjoy them . I am in no way suggesting that Altecs are bad or inferior. I have heard them good and bad. I also have heard the Heritage series sound bad(not when I got through with them). I am standing by the 3 Heritage models I mentioned in defense. Although I like the Cornwall and Heresy somewhat, I do dot think they are in the same category. So there you have it ! |
Macrojack....Mr Decibel here. On a review here on Audiogon of the Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers, the reviewer states " Horns, in particular, along with drum kits and guitars(both electric and acoustic)have an uncanny natural quality that comes extremely close to sounding like real instruments playing in real space. This reviewer had the Ohm 2000s for a 120 day trial. It was a rave review. He also speaks of PRAT(pace,rhythm,attack and timing)being fine. He kept the Ohm Walsh 2000s. You started this thread asking "Why not horns?". I good friend of mine who exchanges home visits(listening sessions) with me has top of the line B&W s. We enjoy each others systems, but ultimately he prefers his and I prefer mine. Interesting though, he needs to readjust his listening back at his place, because he speaks about the sessions at my place each and every time. He still stays with the B&W. I do not try to sway him in any way to make a change, nor will he change me. I have been on so many forums over my years, and the forums I enjoy most are those of acceptance and sharing of thoughts,information and experiences. Some here do show that. However, people are entitled to their opinion, which is fine. I have kept away from this for a while now, but realistically, it is the bashing, the insulting, that takes away my enjoyment. I have been around the audio block for a long time. I consider myself and audiophile(hobbyist who seeks high quality audio reproduction through means of high quality electronics). This includes the entire reproduction chain, critically the speaker/room interaction. I also consider myself a music listener. It is to this end that I am an audiophile. I can listen on my pool deck, my boom box, my car system and elsewhere and tap my feet to music that is playing. My main system , however, takes me to a "representation" of the event, as " I " want it to be. I have helped many many people over the years put systems together, some have acquired horns, others (as my friend with the B&Ws)not. Some with tubes, some with ss. Some with analog/digital, etc. I easily accept that not everyone is in my camp, nor do I expect them to be. I believe you are quite happy with your system. While this is the case, just listen and enjoy. I do......Thank you.....Mr DB. |
Mapman. The important thing is that you are enjoying it. |
Mapman, I never put my 2 cents in on that thread, but the Heresy gives one a "small" taste of what a horn is all about. One will try something different when a system no longer does for them what they want it to do. Enjoy... |
JohnK. Thank you for your input. What we needed here on this thread are some horn lovers. So again, thanks. MrDb. |
I have been living with a pair of Morrow Audio MA3 interconnects between my dac and preamp for the last month or so(after break in)and I want to say my system has NEVER sounded better....modified Lascalas......(not talking about my vinyl)..... |
Hi Audiogon members. I am back. As the start of a new year I wish you all a great one. When I lived in NY there were a few audio clubs I belonged to. If anyone is in the Orlando Fl. area who would like to hear my system(I would listen to your's as well,if you wish), let me know. I guarantee the horn haters will no longer hate them. I am not stating you will go out and buy a pair(it is still personal). I have friends and aquaintances who own top of the line B&W, Maggies, Martin Logan, and others, who jump at the chance to come listen, and I enjoy the smile on their faces when they do. Again, Happy New Year to all ! MrD |
I have indicated many times in my posts that I use live, unamplified music as my reference, as many others have as well. Unfortunately, systems cannot equal it, ime, but can simulate it at various levels (not only spl). MrD |
Given that my Lascala's might not be the "perfect" horn system, it was amazing how much more I wanted to, and did, listen to music after aquiring them, and, with each and every modification. I still own many "other" speakers that have taken up space in 2ndary systems(sold more than kept), but the system that draws me in are the horns. Aquire a pair (Fortes are not much 2nd hand), although I prefer the Lascala over all other Klipsch at this respective price point. The bass horn makes a huge difference over others....Just my opinion. And yes, I have a child that went through college, as well as other bills, so I understand the monetary constraints. |
Someone is showing a great deal of immaturity, as well as showing up late in the game. |
Viridian, I used the term immaturity to indicate his use of the word "suck", as I personally and professionally feel this is a word an adult should not use to describe "anything". Kids use this word. And, this thread has been up for quite a while, so he was late in his joining in. Macrojack, I do not know what I said to give you this impression, but you are definetely entitled to your opinion. I am wondering if you have me confused with someone else. Would you please explain why you think my foot is in my mouth ? I wish everyone a great July 4th holiday....... |
Macrojack, you are absolutely correct. I changed the "word" in my own head, assuming it was an insult to horns (which I still beleive), although it might have been a joke. This was Face's 1st appearance on this particular thread (Why not horns)and that is what I referred to when I said he showed up late. I guess I went into defense mode, thinking he was best buddies with some others (you know who I am referring to). I apologize to anyone and everyone who might have taken me the wrong way. I will behave next time. Thank you for calling me out and explaining it. Again, have a great 4th..... |
