WHY IS THERE SO MUCH HATE FOR THE HIGH END GEAR ON AUDIO GEAR?

Asking for a double blind test as only proof for any subjective testimony given in good faith in a hobby site about anyone using something in his audio system /room is asking too much from a too high chair ...

@mahgister , it doesn’t have to be the only proof....but, why wouldn’t a golden ear bat have the courage to pass a blind comparison on a subjective tesimony he provided? For example, i have passed cable comparisons 18/20 to 20/20 times on my rig (highly statistically significant). It helped zip the yapper of a ASR educated moron who lives in my town. He’s a very reformed cat now. Lol

Put your money where your mouth is boys (When the going gets tough, the tough get going!).

I thought I did explain the BACCH SP. As for validating other peoples’ experiences that comes down to two things. What is the likelihood of one’s observation to be the result of the actual sound?

@scottwheel , Hmmm, so you are a BACCH guy eh? Well, that lets me know that you have an adventurous & rambunctious spirit (i.e., you like to explore a bit more than these timid purists...Timid’s the keyword here 😁). Well, I do have a BACCH in my 2 channel room. But, it’s kinda weak/flacid/quite lame in comparison to the latest acquisition for my multichannel room. Get the Sony STR-AZ7000ES 360 reality audio receiver...it is truly a breakthrough in audio. f you have difficult speakers, run its preouts into a chunky power amp. It is only around 3k though, i.e., petty change in comparison to what’s being charged for the crap sold by the diabolical dealers around here. Get 2 more speakers for a total of 4 speakers and prepare for audio nirvana like never before...It’s Sony! They have the engineering clout to make every high end manufacturer look like an imbecile at charity prices. You may sell your Bacch real quick.

There is a big difference between double blind test public protocol and simple blind test in private setting used in your own audio optimization process in an incremental number of steps , with all the time you want , all the repetition you wanted , with the music you pick which is well known to you ( for me albums i know for fifty years) and within an acoustic set of conditions you have put yourself together and which you know very well, all this in complete relaxation...

I agree with ya....I wouldn’t agree to any kind of blind whatever in some random dude’s closet with random tracks back to back. I have done blindtests in my room, where i know a) the resolution of this room is quite high, i.e. i’ve got the acoustic fields ACDA panels that deliver resolution levels a notch above anything i’ve heard (some of Dennis Foley’s proprietary stuff). Anyways, audible differences in cables are quite subtle above a certain quality threshold of build/layup/materials and you need a high resolution room to hone in on such subtleties. b) There are 2 instruments i’ve been playing for... coming up on 40 years. On specific tracks that i know very well which showcase these instruments, i am a highly skilled listener (understandably) for this purpose.

Eitherway, I did it primarily just to see the look on a ASR cult member’s face and aid with his subsequent rehabilitation. There were 2 other dudes observing the whole spectacle and laughing hysterically when i hit the 20/20 times. 😁 ASR dude probably thought me a voodoo practitioner/grand wizard as he walked out in defeat.

There is a YT channel called Alpha Audio where a couple of geeks do all kinds of listening tests, measurements, etc on different tweaks (fairly entertaining). I bet the ASR cult goes nuts when it sees that channel.

I am always open to new tech. So far I have been very unimpressed with Dolby Atmos. Particularly with upmixes. Not sure what any tech can do better than the BACCH and the BACCH works with the vast body of stereo recordings in existence. No up sampling. And when I test it for accuracy it is pretty much perfect

@scottwheel I audited the BACCH extensively, had Choueiri do me the demos (talked to him a lot), etc before i bought it. I have it tweaked it to the point where it sounds better in my room than what i experienced with Edgar’s demo. BACCH is perhaps the best thing that ever happened with 2 channel stereo. But, if you have a big enough room to set up 4 serious speakers (that mean business) and can apply the same ethos that you would apply for a high-end hifi setup (i.e., no dinky li’l sht speakers and 16 of them in a room the size of a closet!!, i.e. the typical hometheater dude’s dumass setup for atmos), Sony’s 360 reality SSM is freaking nuts good, granted you are patient and took the time to study/set it up/calibrate it correctly. Most dudes write off object based audio as something inferior for movies because there’s a big learning curve, they set everything up incorrectly and call it quits. On the same note, Sony’s stuff is quite different from Atmos or Auro. It’s cheap to try it out too/nothing to lose there, i.e.,less than a 3rd or 1/2 the cost of BACCH for entry.

As I’ve noted before, conducting a scientifically valid controlled listening test such as ABX is not as simple as it may appear. I’ve participated in a few such tests conducted by real professionals, and the degree of diligence they displayed was really impressive. It’s not a casual undertaking.

@cleeds , You are imagining very unnecessary things.

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Blind Test:

Step a) Test subject sits with a blindfold on couch

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Step b) ASR dude does cable swaps between 2 speaker cables 8 ft long each 20 times. He may swap, he may not even swap and say "ok, go" to try and trick the test subject, etc...20 freaking times (for statistical significance).

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Step c) Another guy or 2 watch ASR dude so he ain’t doing anything too weasely...like he brought a 3rd cable with him or something, which was not under test consideration just to fk with the test subject. In other words, they watch his ass so he’s only doing swaps between the 2 specific cables under consideration.

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Serves the Purpose! Works pretty good! Highly scientific!

I think that there are many reasons as your answer such as Jealousy, ignorance and knowledge and experience. Many with the knowledge and experience know better and can quickly spot when something is overpriced, and they let it be known. As with anything, more expensive is usually better, but not in every case. There are many companies out there taking profit margins to extremes while others underprice or price their products fairly and still outperform the overpriced ones. Often by far.

@ellajeanelle In general, the companies are not the culprit. It’s always the dealer mafia. The latter sits around, answers a phone call and claims a 50% cut, i.e., he contributes to a 50% markup. If you bought a 50k speaker, he siphoned 25k into his pocket. There are many manufacturers who should not be dealing with a dealer and going direct all day long for the sake of their customers.... If any customer’s IQ is above room temperature, they should be writing to the manufacturers (whose stuff they really like) about going direct.

I like PS Audio. They are fair, have great products, SELL EXCLUSIVELY DIRECT, have no questions asked in home trials, take trade ins and have outstanding customer service. I have six separate audio systems in 6 different rooms. My main and my favorite system is all PS Audio and I love it!

@ellajeanelle , happy for ya.. I’ve had a couple of different TAD models for the past 20 years. They are still a part of Pioneer, i.e., a sizable multinational corporation, for Christ’s sakes and could very easily facilitate some manufacturer direct avenue for their customers. But, i just can’t figure out why they go through these highly unscrupulous//unconscientious dealers in the US. I had to buy my current TAD directly from a private party in Japan to avoid being fleeced by these guys!...got it through cheap freight by sea eventually.

I am certainly not going through a 50% markup for one of these guys to answer a phone call and drop off a box with the mail guy.

deep_333: May I ask why not deal with a US based manufacturer that will sell directly to you, or are you so fond of TAD?  

@ellajeanelle , I had the original TAD Reference (Andrew Jones' cost no object design), which was bought used from a friend of mine and hence it wasn't too much a wallet abuser. When it was released back then, it was considered to be one of the best speakers ever made (sonically) in a few circles. Living with a speaker like that tends to raise the "point of reference",  could make one real nitpicky thereafter, i suppose. 

I wanted to fund a second speaker with some different strengths for the same room and the Schweikert 55 qualified, (not cheap again/German). I found a guy who was willing to trade the Schweikert and some cash in exchange for the TAD. I used that cash to fund the later released/trickledown lower TAD model (E1TX), which gets "close enough" to the Reference model after subs and sufficient tweaks are in place.

It just so happens that the speakers i've personally preferred (sonically) haven't been from local American manufacturers. The local bigger names are also again subject to this 50% markup by dealers (PS Audio being a recent exception). I am not quite the fan of the Magico/Wilson sound either.

More recently, i got a bit jaw dropped by Borresen speakers (made in Denmark, would have been nice if they were American instead). If i do buy the trickledown X3 model (relatively affordable 11k msrp), it wouldn't feel as bad perhaps forking out the "dealer's cut" in this instance, i.e., i could stomach it. It just starts to get plain obnoxious forking out the "dealer's cut" when the speakers exceed a certain price bracket (i.e. the high end price brackets).

Frankly, i am done dealing with that extortive price bracket! I know enough to make things sonically beat down all the extortive crap with what i already have. If other guys are willing to fork out a 100k for looks, bragging rights, etc, whatever, to each his own.

Elon Musk is not permitted to sell his "Made in America" cars in several AMERICAN STATES (because he went manufacturer direct), thanks to the dealer mafia. You can buy a Kia and a Toyota in those states. We know all about the dealer mafia.