My point is that the mainstream hifi industry and the "Hind End" industry has ignored and ridiculed the digital music explosion to its own detriment. And that it doesn't have a clue.
Lossless has been around for the last 5 years. By now shouldn't the players have used their imaginations to see the potential and harness its capabilities instead of relying on uber-expensive one disc players and transports to protect thier existence? Since 2003 when lossless arrived saying digital music is nothing but 'Low Res' has not cut it.
How fun is it flipping through 500 or 1000 discs to find what you are in the mood for? Oh, and who could have imagined people would want tunes in more than one room of their home without buying all new gear (CD/Amp/Speakers) in EVERY room when the source material is in only ONE room?
BTW, I'm not an iTunes/iPod advocate. I use both now but am not wedded to either. I just want music easy to access and high quality. Firms like Sonos, Logitech (Squeezebox/Transporter) and the like will reap the benefits.
I wish the likes of Creek/Arcam and ARC/ML would realize they are not serving up what the people want. |
Rolling Stone is right. Music downloads were up 55% last year, CD sales down 15%. It's still a relatively small part of the market but the tide is undeniable.
Most audiophile's digitized collections are from their own ripped CD's. While lossless downloads are not common yet higher quality downloads are becoming the norm. Linn has lossless downloads, Reference Recordings is working on it. DG's classical collection is available online at 320k. Even Amazon and increasingly iTunes offer 256k downloads. Not great, but a major step up from 128k.
Lossless downloads will become commonplace before long. There is plenty of bandwidth to support it. The recording industry knows some of us will pay for it. And they want the revenue.
It's a shame the mainstream audio industry's head remains in the sand. |
Hack: You missed my point. I'm not talking about just convenience.
Lossless audio has been here for the past 5 years and so have a few products to stream it all over the house. The industry has poo-pooed all digital music as though it was nothing but 128k MP3's. Meanwhile, a few innovative companies (Sonos, Logitech) have run with the ball. The old school is ignoring this new technology at their own peril.
Ckrody: You are exactly right. There are 125MM Ipods out there and every one is hooked up to a PC where music is stored. Any $500 mass-market AVR has built-in DAC's and multiple inputs to accomodate digital streams. It may not have the DAC or implementation you and I want but it's there.
HH Scott, Marantz, Eico and a host of others were swept under the Japanese tide when transistors took over. It will be companies that adapt to the new reality that will prosper and I don't see the old school US mfrs doing it. The UK is doing better, but they also have a ways to go. With our expertise in computer technology and interfaces we should be kicking a$$ here.
GSM18439: I agree that having a digital input on the CD player is a great idea. I'd like it even better on the amplifier because everything runs through it (unless you have powered speakers). Linn and Arcam have nice all in one boxes but don't include a digital input for the DAC. That is sad.
Mrtennis: Whether or not a 40 year old system can outplay today's state of the art is not relevant to my point. Neither is designed for the formats that the industry has already moved towards. That makes for a frustrating scenario for people like me and lost opportunity for companies who built it. |
Ckrody: Isn't the Benchmark 1 derived from or in fact a piece of pro gear?
My CDP is gone now too... sniff sniff. |
Brimac, you are spot on.
This industry just does not get it. They need those enormous margins because their market is stagnant to dying. If they tapped into the enormous potential market of Ipod users they could make a killing. And offer innovative products at far reduced prices. Instead, they lament over the world subsisting on 128k MP3 files and the decline of western civilization.
Even the recording industry, dinosaurs that they are, are now selling downloads free of DRM. They are finding ways of adapting. To see new lines of amplifiers, CD players and integrated units like the Arcam Solo and Linn Classik without digital inputs is indicative of an industry that is out of touch with consumer needs.
A digital input in the 21st century should be like a phono input was in the late 20th century - a given on any preamp or integrated amp. Every AVR I've owned for the past 10 years has had one (or more) of them. |
T_Bone: You raise good points about the economics. I do think that there is a move towards integration for a lot of consumers. Witness the rise of the integrated amplifier in the past few years. Everybody, including ARC, Krell, CJ, Rowland, VTL and so on now have one or more. A few mfrs are even offering 2 channel receivers again (Krell did a few years back, Music Hall is in, Outlaw is in). Putting an appropriate DAC on a $1000-2500 integrated would add a few hundred to several hundred dollars at retail.
Next, consider the 125MM Ipods out there. I'll bet more audiophiles have one than a turntable. Those Ipods are connected to computers that can stream the files all over the house. Not in one room, but many. There is revenue to be had there. How many audiophiles have only one system and how many more would like a 'decent' background system in other rooms?
Ghanson: You're right that some just prefer a different medium whether it is perceived sound quality, familiarity or whatever. But with all due respect, I think the 125MM Ipods is probably a lot higher a number than the number of turntables in current use. Even among 'audiophiles.' |
Hack: You and I are of about the same vintage. I was born just before the end of the 50's. We are not far apart in our thinking, though.
I don't delve into the analog vs. digital fray because I switched to digital back in the late 80's. Maybe that reveals my bias for ease of use, but in any case....
It is sad that the industry hasn't given us a format (with its marketing muscle behind it) that tops what was available almost 30 years ago when the 16 bit 44.1k standard was adopted. We should have digital resolution light years ahead of that standardized by now. I remember 360k one sided 5 1/4 floppies and the like in college. The CD resolution standard was developed several years before that.
With SACD and DVD-A flopping (like HDCD before them) we are left with analog and the CD standard. Everything else is pretty small potatoes.
The industry has accepted CD as a legitimate. Rega was probably the last to succumb in the late 90's. ARC, CJ, ML, Krell and others did before.
So, lossless or WAV files if you want to be a purist represent a benchmark that has been accepted in the high end (save maybe Goldmund and a few other mfrs).
Several, including J Atkinson of Stereophile and R Harley of TAS have said that a computer driven lossless file properly reproduced is equal if not superior to a CD in sound quality. Even at the highest level of the high end. My opinions of these editors and their biases I'll reserve for now.
A few renegades in the '70's (ARC, CJ, ML, Krell, Linn to name a few) were singing their own tune when the rest of the industry went to transistors and direct drive tables with high power/ great specs/ lousy sound. A few, like JGH of Stereophile and HP of TAS called a spade a spade. The market realized these mfrs had something special and rewarded them.
Today the market has seen a move from vinyl to CD to digital formats as noted above. The opportunity to stream this source material across the home exists. Not just one room but many can have source material equal or better than the quality from a CD playback system.
So, why won't the heavies who began the High End revolution in tyhe 1970's wake up and realize that they have a bona fide opportunity here?
Please, help make this happen. Incorporate wifi and DAC's to enable a whole house music of high quality? Think of the opportunity - multiple amps instead of one, multiple speaker pairs instead of one... the opportunities go on. |
They only have a limited number of titles but it's a good start. |
I hope this clarifies it somewhat. If not, message me and I'll try to provide greater focus since I'm the OP. Anyone else, please jump in....
Over 125MM Ipods have been sold in the last 6 years. Stop and think about that for a minute.. How many turntables, high end CD player or transports in that time? Every Ipod is hooked up to a computer. They have the potential to stream this music all over the house. And, lossless digital codecs have been available for FOR 5 YEARS NOW!!!
BUT the industry as a whole still treats all digitally stored media with disdain like it is nothing more than crappy 128k MP3 files.
The potential for streaming high quality playback exists throughout the home, but the industry has ignored it.
Mass market products from $500 AVR's on up have built-in DAC's and some even have built-in wifi.
But all the mainstream hifi industry does to capitalize on this is to sell $1-200 proprietary Ipod docks and keep its head in the sand.
They could build DAC's into integrated amps but only Naim and Bryston do it (Bryston as an option). They could build them into preamps but who does? They could build them into receivers but Music Hall and Outlaw are the only ones in the game.
The industry is not in great shape and it's easy to see why. They have lost sight of the customer. |
Reubent: I'm not an audio designer or manufacturer. But I can read the writing on the wall. 125MM Ipods and computers hooked up to every one of them. Year after year of declining sales of CD's and double digit growth of music downloads. Can you wrap your head around that? It really isn't that hard. The recording industry feels the ramifications. But the audio industry continues to ignore it.
There are a few innovators like RWA but mostly it's about new sheet metal, a design tweak here and there and a new model number. Not to say innovations like class D amps don't come around occasionally.
Michael Fremer gushes over a new phono stage in Stereophile when Ipods outsell turntables by probably 1000:1. BTW, when did the press ever review your beloved Reali-T? Does that tell you anything?
These boards are for freedom of expression. If I offend you try climbing up another tree. |
Hello. Is there anybody out there? 2007 Album sales down 15%. Down in every category. Downloads up 45%.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119941157827866649.html?mod=mm_media_marketing_hs_left |
Don, that's what I'm talking about. I saw this too and am very excited. Wadia pulling the raw digits from an Ipod. If they don't sell a ton of these to audiophiles something is seriously wrong. |
