2. amps-preamps
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Why does my new tube amp and preamp sound so bad?

Hi: I am brand new to audiogon but I would appreciate any ideas you folks may have. I am a seasoned audiophile with only SS experience. I have wanted to try the "tube" sound for awhile but have just now been able to afford it so I put together a new tube based system along side of my SS. I purchased a used set of Klipsch La Scalas and restored them and powered them via my Adcom amp and preamp. The speakers sounded excellent, great bass! All right, next step after much internet research, but without hearing, I purchased a new Cary Rocket 88R amp and a AES (Cary)AE-3 DJH preamp. There are no Cary dealers within 200 miles of where I live (I know dumb mistake!)Hooked the system up and it sounds terrible. Well I thought the tubes just needed breaking in. After 100 hours no better. The sound lacks any bass and it is very "tinney". It sounds as if a low frequency roll-off filter is present. I contacted Cary and they said substitute the AE-3 for my Adcom preamp. I did and there was an immediate improvement. Cary had me ship the preamp back and they checked it out and could not find anything wrong. I put it back into the system with the same results. Does anybody have any ideas? Could tube rolling be the answer? I have tried different interconnects which made no difference. With all things being the same the Cary preamp sounds terrrible when compared to the SS Adcom. I am having a hard time believing it is natural that the 15 year old Adcom smokes the Cary. I am a fairly competent electrical engineer and I believe the tube setup (bias) is correct. I would appreciate any help. Thanks, Larry K.
lkitchell
s23chang
619 posts
 
From my experience, I've owned and audition over a dozen tube preamps and about 10 SS preamps. Not all tube preamps are created equal. You'll find that most the tube preamp had lower frequency roll off ( mid to low price range.) Some high end tube preamps goes deeper than SS preamp. i.e. The Audio Research SP 11 MK II, LS-5, SP-8 MK II ( not as deep as the rest on this list) and the vintage HK Citation I. Aside from the frequency extension, the tube preamps all sound much livelier compared to SS preamp. It adds more emotion to listening experience plus the tube preamp sounds more transparent than the SS preamp.
czbbcl's avatar
czbbcl
1,752 posts
 
Lkitchel

What a bummer. There is no way that adcom should outperform cary; just should not happen. I have had experience with tube pre-amps and tube amps (conrad johnson) and they sounded wonderful through my thiels. Yes it is true tube amps don't have the bass control of ss but they will produce bass and in a lot of cases very satisfying bass. I have no clue as to why you are experiencing what you are other than to let you know it is not normal.Speaker placement isn't the problem and I highly doubt phase is the issue either. Tube rolling is not the solution as someone mentioned more of a tweak than anything else. Have you checked and rechecked your connections. Tube electronics into Klipsch should be a match made in heaven with ss being the lesser. Just my experience and good luck.

Chuck
lkitchell OP
1 posts
 
You people are wonderful. I will experiment with speaker placement and phase inversion at the speaker input. I am fearful of investing money into tube rolling at this point. As I listen a lot to the blues and jazz, bass is of paramount concern to me. The tubes do sound more transparent in the midrange (no doubt) but the highs are tinny and the bass is weak. It may be that tubes are not for me. We all know how personal a music response can be but Stevie Ray Vaughn says "somin aint right". Thanks again for all you folks help. I might be selling my cary stuff and asking for opinions on new SS gear in the same cost range. Thanks, Larry K.
gs5556
1,234 posts
 
If the gear checks out okay, then the only thing I can add is a problem with the cables. Are you using long interconnects? More than, say, 15 feet from pre to amp? If the I/C's are both long and capacitive, the problem may be that the output impedance of the AES (which may be two to five times greater than the Adcom) cannot drive the amplifer as well as the Adcom in that particular configuration.
czbbcl's avatar
czbbcl
1,752 posts
 
Larry

Is the equipment brand new? If so maybe you are experienceing a break-in issue. Let it play for awhile and see if it improves. My CJ premier 350 has taken a fairly long time to break in. I am not familiar enough with Cary to know if their equipment requires a lot of break in time.

Chuck
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