WHY CABLES MATTER!

@kennyc   You rock man!

I don’t understand why people who can’t hear have so much to say on these audio forums.

Years ago I had a buddy, a musician with perfect pitch.  He came over and tuned my piano with a single tuning fork.  Even then he didn’t really need the tuning fork.  It was for my benefit to show that A was the right pitch.  No chromatic tuner, no measuring equipment needed.  Best the piano ever sounded.

If someone needs measurements to confirm for themselves what they are hearing, that’s fine; but why claim others are deluding themselves for not relying on measurements?

Cables and power cords are complicated.  Cables that sound great in one system may not sound so good in another.  Stereo gear didn’t always come with IEC connectors.  I did some diy in the past removing the stock power cords wired into my amps and preamps and soldering in upgraded power cords.  Manufacturers added the IEC connector so that people could try different power cords.  But HiFi manufacturers have also done much to reject noise coming in through the power cord.  For example, I had an ARC SP-6b back in the late 1980s (with the fixed stock power cord).  I had a dedicated line going into my listening room.  I still had to remove all of the dimmers in the house because if a light with a dimmer was on, I could hear a quiet buzz in my speakers.  My later preamps did a much better job rejecting dimmer noise.

The biggest change I have heard with better power cords is actually what I don’t hear.  The background gets blacker- quieter.  I don’t know how they do it and I thought the background was quiet before I put in the better power cord.  That translates to a bigger and more 3D soundstage- more clarity and more focus to the images.  The highs get smoother and clearer too.  Even just a couple of years ago after I bought a Niagara 5000 power conditioner which made a large improvement, I thought to myself no need for better power cords on my DAC and preamps.  I was wrong.  I finally tried better power cords and found they improved the sound of my DAC and my preamps.

I don’t like paying for them because they aren’t shiny and pretty like a speaker or amp or one of those hifi turntables* with the foot thick platter, but power cords matter to the sound by a lot.

* I’d love to have one of those grand looking turntables with two, counter-rotating platters.  It just looks so cool.  But I spent my money on cables.

Here’s the problem.  When you can’t support an argument without using the term “Snake Oil” all credibility is gone.  A lack of experience and knowledge is poor support for theories based on denial.  Famous words from the lawyer that got O J Simpson acquitted:: “Deny, Deny, Deny”.

I think there is too much generalization in this thread.  The quality of cabling and power cords must be commensurate with the quality of the speakers, amps and sources.  Eg. $3000 speaker cables do not make sense for a $3000 pair of speakers and a $3000 amp.  Someone may hear a difference but those speakers/amp will never realize the full potential of those cables.  The converse, someone with $50k speakers and $20k amps running Belden wiring will never hear the true potential of their equipment.  There has to be a balance.  Lastly, people react differently when they hear a truly remarkable hi end hifi system.  Some are blown away and then make it their life goal to achieve that sound in their home (me).  Some think it’s nice but too over the top and just don’t care about it (my brothers).  Some don’t see it as a big deal at all and are happy with a Sony boom box (my youngest brother).  

Take my home theater system.  I have a nice Marantz receiver, Monitor Audio Gold 200 speakers and a Sony OLED TV.  It’s nothing like my stereo system.  It’s a good mid fi set up and I’m fine with that.  I can listen to music on it.  It’s not holographic and the clarity is not breathtakingly good like my stereo but it is pleasant enough sound.  Some things trickle down from my stereo system to my home theater system.  For example, the HT system got my Furman Elite power conditioner when I upgraded the stereo to the Niagara 5000.  The stereo sound improved quite noticeably.  The HT system sound improvement I did not notice so much but the TV picture improvement blew me away.  The picture got sharper and the colors brighter.  An amazing change.  I tried to convince friends and family that they need an $800 power conditioner on their $1000 TVs but no one listened to me.  Yes, I have some upgrade power cords on my HT system- trickle down but not anything exotic expensive.

When I got the LHY SW-8 network switch, I ran a 75 foot long ethernet cable to my Apple TV box.  The streaming picture improved dramatically.  The TV picture today looks like a photograph in motion.  I am so taken by the picture that I don’t think about the sound so much.  And no, I’m not going to run a 75 foot long silver plated ethernet cable to my HT system.  Also, I have $400 speaker cables on the HT speakers.  When I upgraded my stereo speaker cables from expensive to very expensive I didn’t put the old cables on my HT system.  It would not have made much of an improvement in the sound of the HT system. Sure, maybe something but not worth the cost of those cables.

Summary:  Cables commensurate to the equipment in use.  Buy good gear but go cheap on cables and sadly, the full potential will never be realized.  Point two:  Get a good power conditioner for your TV.  In this case an $800 power conditioner for a $1000 TV will make a difference.  Ok, my OLED TV cost a little more than that.

I said why.

Look, stereo gear comes in differing levels of performance. Some basic 100 w/ch amps can be had for a few hundred dollars these days. They use IC’s, low grade electrolytic capacitors, low grade resistors, inductors, low grade printed circuit boards and wiring. They make music but the distortion and noise levels wash out resolution and detail. Better gear still use op amps but will have better electrolytic caps and resistors, inductors and maybe better grade printed circuit boards. And today’s op amps perform much better than in the past. The best gear uses discrete components, high grade circuit boards, better grade of electrolytic capacitors and some film capacitors- better transistors, or tubes. and better grade of inductors. Now resolution and detail is sufficient to differentiate between the different grades of cables. The top end gear will have more sophisticated EMI and RFI rejection circuitry, silver or gold plated printed circuit boards and top grade wiring, resistors, inductors and film and electrolytic capacitors. Add in some nice metal work and metal boxes for this higher end gear and the prices do get rather high. You get what you pay for- very high resolution, clarity, low noise and detail. Now the best cables and power cords will work together with this gear to provide the ultimate in performance.

Take for example, my Marantz HT receiver. It is a nice 40 lb box that delivers 125 W/ch into 9 channels at 8 ohms. One of my Pass Labs mono amps delivers 280 watts into a single channel. That mono amp is almost twice the size of the Marantz receiver and weighs 110 lbs. I expect it to deliver a much higher level of performance and it does. I also know that the best power cords, speaker cables and interconnects will enhance its performance whereas those same cables would be overkill for the Marantz receiver. I know I would not hear much of a difference on my mid fi system with high end cables- it can’t hurt but it also will not help much.

I hope this answers your question and you are being sincere- not just yanking my chain.

It's the weakest link in the chain story.  Buy a top grade amp, preamp and speakers but use a $200 CD player and the system will not inspire.  Get a good quality source and the system sounds better.  Now get some good cabling to round out the system and it will really sing.

It's like my brother back in high school.  He bought a 1969 Gran Torino with a 4 speed transmission.  He rebuilt the engine and put a 3/4 race cam in it.  Double pumper four barrel carburetor and headers.  First thing that broke were the valve push rods.  The stock push rods could not handle the race cam.  Then he broke the transmission.  Got a Borg Warner T10- the rock crusher, it was called.  Next, he burned up the stock clutch.  Put in a racing clutch.  Took all I had to push in the clutch pedal.  Spun the drive shaft (or prop shaft).   Got a stronger drive shaft.  Lastly, broke the U bolts holding the rear springs.  Finally sold the car.  But it was fast.

@facten. Thanks.  I’m keeping busy in my retirement.  The hardware came from Grangier.  I polished the brass pieces to a high sheen with some metal polish.  The only down side is those threads on the rods are sharp.  I was positioning a preamp one time and my Apple Watch scraped against those threads.  Put a deep scratch in the crystal face.  Trade in value instantly dropped to zero.  Doh!

Hang in there tvrgeek.  I think OJ’s lawyers would be proud.  

So what did you do to protect those ladies from unscrupulous salesmen?  I wouldn’t hesitate to go up and advise them that they are wasting their money.  Just like I would advise you based on the gear you have but you already know that.

Yes, I have first hand experience with cables.  Did you view my system?  I’m way beyond recovery…but after 44 years in hifi, no going back. 

Thank you kind sir.  I ended up installing the hardwood floor myself.  I have installed hardwood flooring before which is why I didn’t really want to do it again but it was the pandemic.  Had a hard time even getting the flooring.  But it worked out in the end and I saved some money doing it myself.  Just rent the big staple gun and my wife who likes puzzles, laid out each row of wood and kept scrap to a minimum.

I like the hardwood flooring vs carpeting because, 1) the 7/8” thick wood stiffens the floor which is good for room acoustics and 2) I can control reflections using wool rugs over the hardwood.  And I probably no longer need my self made cable risers with the wood flooring but I kept them in place since I put the work into them.

Cool.  My son lives in Dallas. 

So this video, which we are listening to on our phones/computer is supposed to show us how bad music reproduction is by comparing it to a natural voice speaking at the same time- through our computer/iphone speaker. Mr. Spock would say that is illogical. That speaker sounds bad with or without his natural voice talking over it. That much I can hear on my iPad.

I have and so has everyone else heard people talking in front of their speakers and they still sound great, fantastic, realistic.

If an outdoor PA speaker is your idea of hifi no wonder the low opinion of the art.

Just another sham.

If hifi really sounded so bad the industry would have died out long ago.

In 1910, Thomas Edison marketed his new phonograph with stage shows. He had his phonograph and a live singer on stage behind a thin curtain. He would have the singer perform or he might play a record on his phonograph and then ask the audience to decide if the performance was live or was it the recording. He sold a lot of phonographs. And they weren‘t cheap.

Kevin, I apologize for coming across so harsh.  I didn‘t understand your intentions.  But I still vehemently disagree with that video.  My brother talked me into buying this big Sony boombox last year.  He thinks it is the greatest.  He actually prefers the sound of that boombox over my stereo system.  But then I cooked a delicious, very expensive prime rib and he didn‘t like that either.  He told me he would have been happier with a hamburger.  Lesson learned.

I can‘t play that Sony boombox much louder than a whisper.  The sound  of it grates on me.  Hard to believe we both came from the same parents sometimes.  But funny how he kept listening to my stereo.  What hurt the most was him frying his slice of prime rib, his perfect slice because he thought it was still raw.  I couldn‘t convince him otherwise.  We all see, taste, feel and hear in different ways.  It‘s cause for rejoicing, not fighting.