WHY CABLES MATTER!

@calvinj 

There will always be naysayers- most unwilling to try themselves or thinking they’re experience is truth for all dispute the fact that we each have different;

• hearing ability 
• audio chains
• clarity and transparency 
• room conditions 
• noise floors
• electrical noise 
• …etc

Best to not let it bother you or get sucked in by trolls 

@calvinj 

The problem with naysayers is that they ask for proof, aka too lazy to look and research for themselves.  They want us to do the work for them.  They sit on their knowledge of “limited facts” claiming “prove me wrong”.  However, for the rest on this thread, I’ll post some info:

@tvrgeek 

Regarding Ethernet, quote from Puma Cat at WBF:

”…Respectfully, it's not a "digital signal"; that is only how the data is encoded. The actual signal is an analog voltage "square wave", and as such is susceptible to number of "noise factors", all of which have, and do, exert an audible impact on what is heard. The other important point for folks to understand, is that a lot of folks (most, probably), think that the "noise" rides "down low", at the bottom of the "signal + noise" component of the source "information" being amplified. This is not true: the noise actually rides "on top" of the signal...as such, its deteriorates and degrades the integrity of signal itself  As shown here with a digital signal source.”

”The reason that optical fiber provides a benefit is that it does not pass low- and high-source impedance leakage current, and this leakage current results in threshold jitter. Not to get too deep into the weeds here, but even the cores for the isolation transformers in the R45 jacks in an Ethernet switch can have an audible effect. 

While I dig up some more info, I recommend you read this white paper by John Swenson, who designed the EtherREGEN, and worked as a professional Ethernet engineer for Broadcom and CISCO for the better part of 40 years.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386 “

”Remember, the signal is an electromagnetic wave that propogates down the cable (it is not electrons flowing through the cable like water in a hose or marbles in a tube). The Vp(propogation velocity) of the signal is frequency-dependent, and an electromagnetic "signal" wave can reach the end of the cable and "reflect back", just like water in a tub or pool. This means different frequencies propagate down and reach the end of the cable at different times. And, because the Vp is different for different frequencies, there will be a number of "back reflections" occuring at...different times†.

This is just some foundational info to understand, that particularly with respect to digital sources, our brains are very, very sensitive to the impact of timing. For digital audio, for example, we can actually hear the influence of timing errors in the picosecond range, which is why we use femtoclocks for components like DACs, streamers, network switches, network bridges, etc. The Sonore EtherREGEN uses a Crystek CCHD-575 clock, and this crystal oscillator was chosen specifically for it's audio quality. This is why components like the Cybershaft master clocks, etc., have such a positive impact, and why EtherREGEN also has an external 50 Ohm clock input*. 

The 1.5 M minimal length that Shunyata uses for Ethernet cables and USB cables, for example, was empirically determined as the shortest length that can be used to minimize the impact of signal wave "reflections" on audio quality.

It's physics, so yeah, it's a real thing”

Masterbuilt Cables were designed by the same government scientists involved in superconductors.  When a heated debate on WBF including scientists and engineers over some marketing material, they were all silenced when the supercomputer scientists answered/explained their claims which went way over my head.  Even scientists, engineers, etc are trumped by experts in a particular field.

If you want measurements in your cables, perhaps Iconoclast Cables. They have excellent white papers here and here that can educate on the problems and chosen solutions. Excellent read to learn about audio cables.

While a very few want proof aka understanding on how/why cables are better before purchasing, cable manufacturers rarely tell us the secret sauce so others can copy.  Most of us are simply interested in price/performance, seeking better sonics.  

The notion that everyone is under the influence of expectation bias and placebo effect and that subjective listening reports are essentially the result of delusion, is simply absurd. It’s just like a certain politician who instructed his followers to ignore what they read and saw and instead listen only to him. Smart people don’t dismiss observations and empirical evidence just because someone else tells them to.

+1 @cleeds 

Although there’s a possibility of a placebo effect, it’s offset by the multitudes of voices saying otherwise.  Common sense, which maybe not as common as we hope, would rule out that all these people including professional reviewers are being duped, by the manufacturers.  It’s quite common for as one moves up a product line like Audioquest that there are usually noticeable are sonic improvements.  There is also a chorus of people who say Belden is a quality cable, but moving up to a better cable makes an obvious audible differences.

YES, everyone is under the placebo effect

This speaks volumes of your ignorance, I doubt you’ve even met 0.1% of the population.  

Look I’m not being snobby but I have all the latest gear from INFIGO AUDIO who I now work with.  Amp and dac literally have no noise floor. Music comes out of blackness. When you have that kind of gear cables matter. When you have gear and speakers capable of great resolution you hear the difference

@calvinj 

Agree - as one moves up in better lowered noise floors, transparency, and resolution usually associated with better “likely significantly more expensive gear” (diminishing returns) then cables can be the sonic bottleneck unless addressed. 

It’s usually pointless to debate with naysayers- it’s not a lack of understanding but an heavy bias envy/anger “emotional resentment” based on their perception of value and unaffordability.  

Tactics often used:

• Lie then ask us to prove different 
• Ask for proof- a smokescreen to ignore sonic gains, tries to place a precondition for it to work. If it works proof not needed
• Create fake victims - someone is being duped. Audiophiles do not part with their money easily, the more it costs, the higher scrutiny we use.  
• Unrealistic Exaggerate examples 
• Ignore sonic gains
• Look for a few examples, then apply findings as representing the whole
• Present themselves as knowledgeable by presenting unrelated facts, then end with their unsupported claims

One cannot reason with unreasonable people. Few will ever admit their mistake aka being wrong- their self esteem is tied to them being right.

@smurfstain

high-end audio sonic preferences is highly subjective, there is no perfect system or component- it’s all a facsimile of real music. Also, we have different budgets. Bottom line, we cannot tell you what you’ll like. What we can do is make suggestions based on our knowledge and experience, but it’s up to you to try or not. Most here have tried various components as we try to change or improve sonics.

Years ago when I started from scratch, I spent years researching many reviews including TAS (The Absolute Sound) and Stereophile magazines, forums, other online. Also demoed components at high-end audio stores and major audio shows like AXPONA. I spent years researching before purchasing my analog + digital audio chains.

Where to start? Decide SS (solid state) or tube sonics/amplification, or start with speakers first then choose matching electronics afterwards.  Yes, this is a lot of effort, but we do it to maximize our sonics on our limited budgets. 

Stereophile has a recommended component list here, and TAS prints an annual copy (November 2023) Annual Buyers Guide including a Top 50 Greatest Bargains in High-End Audio like this old list here.

@calvinj 

I suspect that many naysayers:

1. Haven’t tried it themselves 
2. Tried on an audio chain not transparent enough, the noise floor including ambient is not low enough, or their hearing is not sensitive enough.  This is tough to point out as it can be interpreted as insulting 
3. Have an exaggerated ideas - they complain about expensive cables vs what we normally advise - “only very conservatively buy cabling to match the level of the audio chain”.
4. It greatly bugs them not knowing justification for costs above basic wiring.  We have conductors, Dielectric material(s), Dielectric geometry, Shield design/material, Jacket design/material.  They’re stuck on the price vs cost.  They are fixed on emotional resentment usually stemming from unaffordability.
5. They complain that cable manufacturers aren’t forthcoming in providing justification data, but downplay/ignore the fact that if they reveal their processes, copycat companies would steal sales.  

I simply look at cost/benefit within my budget.  Griping rarely does any good, it won’t change how cable manufacturers operate.  

I’m getting better at ignoring naysayers- they’ll always be around so it’s fruitless to try to fix- maybe might help some, but there will always be more