Why are the vocals on some records hidden behind the music on my system?

@scooby2do - Since your CD’s sound fine and some albums sound fine it would appear everything is in in phase.

How old is the cartridge?
--- could just be old age - the suspension of the stylus may be shot

Is the Anti skating set correctly?

Is the stylus worn
--- if it;s worn it could effect phase

Is the stylus/cartridge correctly aligned on the arm?
--- The more advanced stylus types (Contact Line and Shibata) requires a more precise alignment and can cause this issue

I have Optimized Contour Contact Line stylus and it required a Mint Best Protractor to get the best sound

How old is the phono stage?
--- (could be the internal electrolytic caps need replacing is the phono stage is old)

It only takes a small difference in phase between the L/R channels to cause the issues you are descibing.

I do not think the motor would not cause this issue

I’d start with checking Stylus alignment

Then I’d try switching a few IC’s between components in the analogue side of your system to see if they make a difference

As far as room treatments go ...
- the most effective I have tried is a vinyl roller blind behind the listening position. I only had it extended about 15" from the ceiling
- A piece of foam on top of book cases

It seems that the most reverberation issues in my old room occurred close to ceiling level.
The new room has very little (if any) reflected sound issues

Hope you get to the bottom of it

Regards - Steve

@scooby2do - your Soundsmith Aida Has an Optimized Contour Line Contact Stylus - these require the MOST PRECISE setup!

I would highly recommend setting it up using the Best Mint Protractor first (or a protractor that provides for the same amount of precision) and get a younger pair of eyes to perform the setup for you with a very good loupe.

My setup took around two hours of dickering around with the setup and verifying it was correct using a digital camera for closeup analysis.

This stylus type is critical of mis-alignment but the rewards of getting it right is well worth it.

A printed protractor WILL NOT give you the precision required!

The anti-skate method as detailed on the Soundsmith web site basically mirrors Almarg’s post (i.e. you want to make sure there is no sideways force on the stylus) - with a few little refinements that may make a difference...
https://www.sound-smith.com/faq/how-do-i-adjust-anti-skating-my-cartridge

To see if the position of the stylus is being altered when you lower the stylus on the record you should be using a good loupe. The naked eye is not really good enough for Soundsmith cartridges..

It then took just under 2 hours to get the A/S of my Soundsmith’d Denon cart with the Optimized Contour Line Contact Stylus just right. My cartridge is mounted on an Audiomods arm that use a weight and quadrant antiskate system to optimize the A/S force across the record.
http://www.audiomods.co.uk/antiskatenotes2.pdfs

"Dial-in" anti skate systems can present issues that are difficult to rectify - My old rega arm was so far off I had to set the A/S dial to the maximum, so basically I had to use the "trust my ears" method...

• Start with the dial set at zero
• then play a troublesome track while you advance the dial in equal increments (e.g. 1/4 of a turn)
• when is sounds good set the dial back half an increment to see if it sounds better or worse.
• adjust in fine increments until best image is attained
• It might be an easier/faster way to proceed.
• Do this at the center of the recording surface, that way the beginning and end of the recorded surface will only be a little off, which is always the issue with dial A/S systems.
• At some point during this process this cartridge should snap into focus.
  

Hope you get your problems solved soon - Steve

@scooby2do - before you get playing records - sounds like you are adjusting tracking force to set the VTA?

The upper limit tracking weight should not be exceeded. You should not use it to set VTA/SRA

Most cartridges(but not all) are designed such that the top of the cartridge, that mates to the arm, should be parallel to the playing surface - this almost always ensures the SRA is correct or within acceptable tolerances

Some cartridges do respond better with a "Tail-up" or "Tail down" alignment, but that is accomplished using the VTA adjustment feature of the arm (if it has one) - not the cartridge tracking force

The following is from Soundsmith on  VTA/SRA

Stylus Rake Angle

Firstly, let me explain a bit about VTA vs. SRA. This is a complex subject, one that is one of the most misunderstood aspects of cartridge design, manufacturing and alignment.

VTA is a term that describes the CANTILEVER tracking angle. Soundsmith uses cantilevers with VARIED designs of VTA. The universe of cartridges have historically been made with varied cantilever tracking angles over the many years, from as low as 15 degrees to as high as 30 or more.  The angle of the cantilever is of little value, as it describes only the design of a particular cartridges use of a particular cantilever/stylus design. What is finally important is always the SRA, or Stylus Rake Angle. That must always be 2 degrees, raked back towards the direction of the incoming groove in the record – that matches the way most all records are made.  

Soundsmith uses varied cantilevers, with varied VTA’s; these can change slightly from unit to unit as there is often variation in the mounting of the diamond as well as the faceting of the diamond. Many cartridge manufacturers do not take this into account carefully, and as a result, the resultant SRA can vary badly from unit to unit. Michael Fremer did an expose’ some time ago showing a very expensive NEW cartridge where the VTA was correct, but the SRA was not “just a bit off”, - in fact, it was not even close to being -2 degrees, but was PLUS 10 degrees. He posted a picture of it.

Recently the use of USB microscopes has brought a plethora of “experts” who believe they are viewing the SRA correctly. Often, they are fooled by the optics, an issue also complicated by the fact that by not realizing that by viewing the “shank” of the diamond they are not viewing the actual facet angle which traces the groove walls. This facet edge position VARIES from diamond to diamond within a single diamond stylus design as the shaft of the diamond is not always held perfectly in the tool that is used to hold it while the facets are being made. It can vary as much as +/- 4 degrees easily – WITHOUT the ability of being easily observed.  

So, while folks believe that they obtaining correct SRA by viewing either the edge facet itself, the cantilever VTA or the diamond shaft, they can still be very far off. Knowing the VTA of a particular cantilever/diamond design is therefore of little value. Also of extreme importance is the fact that a STATIC view of SRA - versus how the cantilever moves UP when the record is playing, offers additional degrees of ERROR when using a USB microscope to determine proper SRA.

An interesting case is the diamond we use in many of our models, including the Sussurro. Many who view that diamond with optical aids are shocked to see that it is raked back by what appears to be as much as 20 degrees, and have questioned Soundsmith’s ability to mount a stylus.

This particular diamond we use in several of our designs has a “HIDDEN” facet at the bottom, thus returning the SRA to 2 degrees raked inward. A discussion of our stylus in this regard, and the explanation,  can be found here:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=927659

The most important thing to know when setting up ANY cartridge is that if it lucky enough to have been made correctly, that when the cartridge is mounted, the tone arm should be parallel with the surface of the record. SRA adjustments up and down from there can be made, and there are many ways to do this by ear, with advice coming from many sources – sometimes with opposing views - all posted on the web.

Soundsmith cartridges differ from others in this respect; since we well recognize the many extreme variables in mounting, manufacturing and attaching diamonds and cantilevers – as well as the SUSPENSION differences from cartridge to cartridge in ALL types of cartridges, we make every effort to adjust each of our cartridges individually to the variable nature of the true SRA of each cantilever/stylus assembly.  

Therefore, we assume that people who know about mounting and aligning cartridges know that one always starts with the tone arm parallel to the record, and adjusts up or down from there to listening preference.  

So as you can see - the stylus angle should NOT be at 90 degrees.

It may sound better, but you may be doing damage to the stylus or your albums

Regards

@scooby2do - In my previous post I mentioned that the top of the cartridge should be parallel to the playing surface to achieve the correct SRA

How do you accomplish that?

Some arms - like the rega has a tapered arm tube, so setting the arm parallel to the playing surface could be slightly inaccurate.

Take a look at this link and then scroll down to "Setting VTA" - it shows a little device I made to accomplish this - cost about $5 :-)
http://image99.net/blog/files/04fdba8476cfd21bdd7a5fdf38c8cdf5-28.html

Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction

Regards - Steve

@scooby2do ...

So after you set the pin to the height of the front you move it to the back and back and forth until they match (same height at both ends, then it should be level (i.e. parallel to the record) at which time you can make your up or down adjustments.

Yep - you got the idea.

I did look at some of the commercially available products and they all had their drawbacks, especially when it comes to cartridges with angled sides/ends

The only Cartridge this device cannot align with any precision is the angled Ortofon cartridges that have the "drooped snout" look - but then they tend to use a non tapered arm tube, so that can be used to gauge the level.

Good luck with the setup - keep us posted as to your progress

Cheers - Steve