Oh please... MSB DAC for you 🙄. Now tell me why DACs matter and why anyone can be happy enough with a $50 DAC from China 🙄
Why are digital streaming equipment manufacturers refusing to answer me?
I have performed double blind tests with the most highly regarded brands of streamers and some hifi switches. None have made any difference to my system on files saved locally. I have asked the following question to the makers of such systems and almost all have responded with marketing nonsense.
My system uses fiber optic cables. These go all the way to the dac (MSB). Thus no emi or rfi is arriving at the dac. On top of this, MSB allows me to check if I receive bit perfection files or not. I do.
So I claim that: if your dac receives a bit perfect signal and it is connected via fiber optic, anything prior to the conversion to fiber optic (streamers, switches, their power supplies, cables etc) make absolutely no difference. Your signal can’t be improved by any of these expensive pieces of equipment.
If anyone can help explain why this is incorrect I would greatly appreciate it. Dac makers mostly agree, makers of streamers have told me scientific things such as “our other customers can hear the difference” (after extensive double blind testing has resulted to no difference being perceived) and my favorite “bit perfect doesn’t exist, when you hear our equipment tou forget about electronics and love the music”!
My system uses fiber optic cables. These go all the way to the dac (MSB). Thus no emi or rfi is arriving at the dac. On top of this, MSB allows me to check if I receive bit perfection files or not. I do.
So I claim that: if your dac receives a bit perfect signal and it is connected via fiber optic, anything prior to the conversion to fiber optic (streamers, switches, their power supplies, cables etc) make absolutely no difference. Your signal can’t be improved by any of these expensive pieces of equipment.
If anyone can help explain why this is incorrect I would greatly appreciate it. Dac makers mostly agree, makers of streamers have told me scientific things such as “our other customers can hear the difference” (after extensive double blind testing has resulted to no difference being perceived) and my favorite “bit perfect doesn’t exist, when you hear our equipment tou forget about electronics and love the music”!
Showing 9 responses by thyname
Glupson my man. My username is all there to see. Since 2004 or thereabouts. With all trading history here. And my actual gear under “system”. Let me know what else I can do for you. A fake account (for like at least five times that I know of, maybe more) like our genius here goes something like this: 1) Create an account here. Post your hatred towards members, get kicked out (and rightly so) 2) Use another email address to sign up under a different username, as the original one was already taken. Post same venom. Get kicked out again. 3) Use another email address to sign up under a different username, as the original one was already taken. Post same venom. Get kicked out again. 4) Use another email address to sign up under a different username, as the original one was already taken. Post same venom. Get kicked out again. 5) Use another email address to sign up under a different username, as the original one was already taken. Post same venom. Get kicked out again. 6) Use another email address to sign up under a different username, as the original one was already taken. Post same venom. Get kicked out again. 7) Use another email address to sign up under a different username, as the original one was already taken. Post same venom. Get kicked out again. 8) Repeat |
Hi @mihalis yes, it’s the ProUSB / ProISL combo: https://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/prousb/ It’s the two part combo (scroll down on that link above):
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As for a USB streamer, I wanted to clarify the “clocking” part on this discussion, based on what I researched and experimented with back then (I no longer use USB now): Yes, the AUDIO SIGNAL on the USB streamer is “clocked” by the DAC. No question. A good USB streamer reclock the USB signal, not to be confused with the clocking for the audio signal. It is reclocking the USB commnunication between the source and the DAC, meaning it does not work at the audio level but at the USB protocol level. I don't think people realize that the USB signal does not get reclocked by the DAC. What they reclock on the DAC is the audio signal that is transported via USB. The USB communication components themselves (I.e in a USB streamer) are affecting the performance of the DAC. This has also independent of the galvanic isolation of the DAC, which on its own is a separate, independent issue. I hope this makes sense @mihalis . Needless to say, theory is just that, theory, and not a substitute for practice. |
Hey @mihalis I had the same MSB DAC, but the lowest model, the Discrete with the same ProISL / ProUSB module combo like you. At that time, there was an audible difference to my ears when feeding that DAC via USB from a NUC, then Nucleus, vs. a top server ‘ streamer I had then, the Innuos Statement. That’s what I heard, with my ears, my equipment, my room. That’s all I needed to know, and be happy, enjoying my music. I did not have to worry why, although I intuitively can figure out the reason, based on what the Innuos Statement has / does. All what matters is we experiment for ourselves. Sometimes new things work, sometimes they don’t. We then move one to something that works, or just stay with what we have / own. It’s pretty simple. |
@mihalis I simply shared what I experienced, with that MSB DAC and that same module. Which MSB DAC did you own? I don’t see it under the System for your current gear. So for the ProISL / ProUSB module combo, was it the same you had? That’s what I had. My subsequent attempt in technicality of the benefits of USB protocol in streaming (or lack thereof) was simply based on my limited technical knowledge. I don’t pretend to be fully able to explain everything I hear. As for the MSB ProISL / ProISL implementation, yes, the main objective is to eliminate copper, therefore the electrical interference associated with it, by introducing fiber. But it’s not as simple as that. The first device, what they call ProUSB (the dongle that stays outside the DAC, on it’s own) converts USB to their proprietary ISL audio transmission via the fiber. Then the module that goes into the DAC, what they call the ProISL module, is the one that is directly connected to the DAC architecture. Basically copper USB cable to the ProUSB dongle input, then fiber optics cable from the ProUSB dongle output, to the ProISL module (attached to the DAC) input. So it’s not as simple as fiber, and here you go, all problems solved magically. The conversion itself is perhaps just as important, as in theory can introduce other issues. Further, many of the non-believers will tell you that any of that is not an issue at all, and any competent Topping China $50 DAC has all that built in, galvanical isolation and all, so totally unnecessary to go through fiber they will tell you. So here is that. |
Getting “bit perfect” signal is not a rocket science. You make it sound like people are all naive and streaming music from some noisy desktop computers. It’s extremely easy with all major streaming protocols, including from Roon via a NUC, Nucleus, Innuos, and so forth. MSB Select DAC starts at $85,000 I believe. Once you add your ProISL / ProUSB module (that alone is $2,000) and perhaps the second power base, and the upgrade clock, then the price becomes ridiculous. |