Who will survive? One last table til I die.

Hi, guys:

I think my Airy2 is finally getting broken in. I've been playing the Cardas sweep record and the process accelerated. I spent last night with the Sheffield Drum record, specifically trying to optimize tonearm/cartridge setup for dynamics, and I was impressed with the improvement. I finished by playing Stanley Clarke's Schooldays, one of my longtime dynamic touchstones, and the dynamic impact was as good as I've had. Then, to see if I had compromised other important parameters, I switched to Ella and Joe Pass on a Pablo (my favorite "unknown/ignored" label) LP, and her voice was silk and his guitar fullbodied with good overtones. I'm going to live with the Airy2 for awhile before making a final decision on changing cartridges, but last night I was pleased.

A quick aside, the VPI JMW arm has the easiest VTA adjustment I've ever had the pleasure of using. It allowed me to quickly and accurately repeat VTA settings for comparisons. Sure beats my old method of using a sparkplug calibration tool to repeat settings.

I was interested in Dougdeacon's comments about the Airy3 dynamics problem with certain tonearms. My HRX, of course, came with the JMW and, since there is no separate armboard, the plinth is drilled specifically for the JMW. Obviously I am reluctant to drill new holes in my pretty new plinth, so it will take a lot to get me to change to an arm that doesn't fit in the JMW mounting holes. (Are there others?) And, as luck always has it, just before stumbling on the HRX buy, I had purchased a brand new Graham 2.2, which I now have sitting in an unopened box.

As to the $3400 tonearm cable question, I think I'm more inclined to put that kind of cash towards a new phono stage first. I was hoping someone would come up with God's greatest tonearm cable for under $1000 but you guys have too much experience with the really good (read, oh my god, does heaven really cost that much?) equipment.

I'm also thinking about a new preamp, possibly a linestage so I could use whatever phono stage I liked best. The Steelhead, though, offers an interesting alternative. Using it as my preamp as well as my phono stage might make it cost effective.

Interesting that Raul mentioned subwoofers, because I've been thinking that should be my next move. I definitely plan to add a pair before even contemplating a main speaker change (Watt Puppy 5.1s, now the oldest component in my chain). I've been looking for Vandersteen 2Wq's as a reasonable costing and sized tryout option.

I do agree with Gregadd about tubes, relying on specs, everything is a filter, etc. Since I am unencumbered by any surplus of technical knowledge, I just plug it in, turn it on, listen, and decide. I was into solid state early (remember the Audio Research SP4?)as the wave of the future but eventually found tubes were more satisfying. I do admit, though, that I have not tried any of the new top solid state gear.

Audio999: does the Siltech G6 come as RCA to RCA?

Thanks for the responses to my post. To refine the discussion, perhaps I should comment on some of the suggestions.

For example, I agree that the Linn will probably be around in one incarnation or another forever. The company has also been very stable over the years and seems likely to stay that way. There must be more LP12s out there than any other table, and the availability of parts, mods, repair persons and such is likely to be strong for many years, which is exactly what I want. Unfortunately, I have owned this table, and it is not sonically competitive with today’s better efforts.

I have had a couple of SOTAs, culminating in the Cosmos (very early version), and have been pleased with their performance. I have talked with the present personnel and am seriously considering their available modifications and upgrades. However, SOTA has had a spotty history of financial stability, folding and resurrecting itself with new ownership several times. The present operation seems to be very small and vulnerable to extinction if they had a one car crash. I’m not convinced they will be around in five years much less twenty-five. Continuity is important.

I do like the idea of the VPI HR-X. The company is stable. Even if the top guys retire, it seems they have adequate backup to keep things rolling for years. There is a good product base out there, which insures enough demand for parts and such to make it worth someone’s time to provide them over the decades. Their tables are very good sounding, of course, and I assume the HR-X will be their best effort to date. I have never owned a VPI so I don’t have first hand knowledge of their reliability and longevity. The pictures of the HR-X are interesting. Is the machining and parts quality and design good enough to last twenty years? Is it finicky to set up and does it maintain its setup or need constant tweaking?

My comments about VPI would probably apply to Basis also.

I believe the Technics table is not belt driven, which seems to me to be essential to smooth out speed variations and obtain top sound. Wasn’t it a favorite of DJs because of its quick startup?

I’ve always been intrigued by the laser turntable. The reports I have read, though, echoed Henry10023’s: perfectly clean records are a must. The sound was also said to be okay, but not the very best. There is also the problem of company stability and longevity, if there is a company.

I like the idea of stocking up on parts for whatever table I get, whether it be armboards, pulleys or whatever. I recall a review of the Walker which pointed out the maker’s contention that some of the major components were easily available from mass market sources. That idea appeals to me. I’d like to be able to gut my sewing machine to keep my table running.

A better phono section is always a good idea, but that is a different discussion.

Steve

We think alike, Gregm. I like the concept of a lifetime guarantee, providing, of course, that the company life surpasses that of the turntable.

The tonearm is problematic, although one could conceivably just buy a spare or two, given the cost relative to the table itself. BTW, I think much the same criteria should apply in picking the tonearm as the table, which means no linear tracking arms.

Easily the worst longevity problem in the vinyl playback chain lies with the cartridge(s), of course. I've broken too many too easily, and they don't seem to be getting cheaper. Their other big difficulty, mentioned earlier in the thread, is that cartridges have parts that deteriorate (even when just sitting on the shelf) and that are not easily replaced by the consumer. Thus stockpiling them is not a good option, and I accept that I shall have to budget pension money for new cartridges over the years.

I don't know much about the Simon Yorke table, but since it fits your criteria, I shall certainly look at it. What other tables did you consider and how close was your choice? What finally made the Simon Yorke the winner?

Steve

I've let this thread sit for some time while I've been checking out the various excellent suggestions you all gave. I am extremely intrigued by the over all concept, design and parts replaceability of the Teres/Redpoint/Galibier cousin (estranged?) companies' products. Has anyone had experience with all of them? Or any two?

David: I liked the Simon Yorke (as originally suggested by Gregm) and visited the website and read some reviews. The Teres/etc's just seemed to carry the longevity design a bit further (more available outsourced parts, if necessary; more easily replaced modular parts; more design detail disclosure). I haven't ruled it out.
I also admit to being intellectually pleased and attracted to the idea of a bunch of technically competent audiophiles sitting around in the basement and coming up with something of superior design and quality. (Wish I'd had the balls twenty-five years ago to do something similar; tho actually, my balls didn't matter because I never had any technical abilities anyway; I'm just content that I've learned how to set up my table/arm/cartridge with some skill, which only took me about 15 years.)
I am also seduced by the Teres wood. I love beautiful wood. I just don't know if it is the best material for so much of a turntable. But then I think of those Strad violins that have only gotten better over the centuries. There is a resonance to wooden instruments that always seems particularly involving.
Nevertheless, the bottom line is the sound, and I haven't heard any of these tables yet, so...
Steve

FWIW, I finally got the VPI TNT HRX with the JMW 12.5 arm.

I haven't heard the Airy 3 yet (didn't know there was an Airy 3 and what are the differences?). I haven't even heard the Airy 2 broken in yet, and I am still living with ongoing changes in the cartridge. In a couple more weeks, the cantilever and suspension will probably have had enough playtime for me to start the fine tuning of the LP system. Then I can comment more accurately on the Airy2 and how it mates with the JMW. Right now I can say it has a wide and deep soundstage, great imaging, incredible low level detail retrieval, good transients, good tone. My bass and impact seem a little lacking, but I think that is cartridge setup and speaker positioning changeable, so...

I should also admit that I committed the cardinal sin of critical component listening: I changed more than one piece of equipment at the same time. In fact, I changed four. I had just installed the Airy2 1000RS cartridge, and played about three records total, when I got a great deal on a VPI TNT HRX. The HRX comes with arm already installed, the JMW 12.5. This arm has a terminal box and does not take din/rca phono cable like all of my previous arms did, so I had to get another interconnect to use as the phono cable. The original owner of the HRX was using a Cardas Golden Reference IC, so I just bought his.

Thus, in a matter of weeks, I changed cartridge, arm, table, and cable, going from the Cosmos/SMEIV/Koetsu/Cardas('96) to the HRX/JMW/Airy/GoldenRef. Given those changes and the set up and break in period I'm still going through, I'm not really sure what I'm hearing yet. And other than the cartridges, the system parts are not interchangeable and can't be switched back and forth to isolate the specific changes caused by each piece.

Another bit of the puzzle, the support for the turntable, is also in transition. Previously I had the Cosmos on a seismic sink on a wall stand. The HRX seemed too large and too heavy for that, but I was assured the wall stand could hold up to 500 lbs. I still needed a platform large enough to place the HRX on, though, and finally got a Black Diamond Racing The Source shelf (32x20). Once I reinforce the connection to the wall, I will put the tunrtable on the Source shelf, the shelf on BDR cones, and the cones on the wood platform of the wall stand. Sometime after Thanksgiving I hope to have a better idea of the actual sound of the new equipment. Then I can start adding the BMI power cords I have burning in the basement.

I'm now soliciting opinions on Airy set up tips, phono stage (now internal CAT III), phono cable (now Cardas Golden Reference).

I've read great things about the Io Signature, but$2735 for one meter of the Ebony IC? Wow.

Since I believe the phono cable is the most important wire in an analogue based system, and the one I am most likely to be willing to overpay for, I shall now have to add the Omega Mikro Ebony to the short list. I admit to being totally ignorant of this line of wires until Rushton's post.

A website I found did not mention any phono cable, only the Ebony interconnect. I am assuming that this interconnect is used for both phono and line, which I always find troublesome since I have assumed that the signals from each were different enough that a cable should be optimized for either phono or line.

(As a barely related aside, oddly enough, I miss the little din connector I've always needed on my tonearm cable; its delicacy seems more symbolically suited to the subtle art of coaxing music out of microscopic scratches in dead wax than the cruder RCA plug that replaces it.)

Just out of curiosity, Rushton, what were the runners-up to the Ebony? And what other wires do you use in your system?

Dear TWL: Just checked out your system. Was curious about the Rottweiller tweak. Does it work best between the speakers or on top of them?