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Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?

I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.

Here is how I found out.

After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.

It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.

I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!

SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
sautan904

Showing 9 responses by ieales

ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
Spot on that cables are tone controls, as are components. See https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/it-s-simple

Given CBLFs that are capable of detecting changes within systems:

If you move systems from room to room along with the CBLFs and keep the program material the same, the changes probably will be detected in all rooms.

If you mix and match components, program material and cables in the same room with the same CBLFs, detected differences probably will change.

CBLF = carbon based life form ;-)
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
There are definitely instruments that can measure.

I posted this earlier for @shadorne 
An appropriate plain cable or wire is not going to change amplitude or phase in any meaningful way.

This link shows Phase and Impedance for 3 speaker wires:
Bob Carver's Music Ribbon, Rega Duet and a development prototype.
http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/TriWireZ.jpg

If the phase and amplitude change, the sound changes. Full Stop.

Remember what Disraeli said "There are lies, damned lies and statistics"
It's possible to contrive a set of measurement that look perfect. Unless one knows the setup and questions to ask, it would just be more bad information.

The best solution is to attend live, unamplified music and use similar recorded music to calibrate your system. Any system that can accurately replicate the dynamics and air of live music is going to breeze with compressed, over eq'd pop.


ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
@nonoise 
...every chart I looked at said...

You'll never know until you try something

...the manual just won't cut it.

Color me confused
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
@johnluse As Abe Lincoln said, "50% of everything on the Internet is wrong"

If one changes length, LRC increase.
If one increases gauge L increases, R decreases and C will depend on the dielectric and spacing.

So by changing length or gauge, you have varied LRC
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
@nonoise 
even though 16 gauge is sufficient for cable lengths up to 36 feet, if your dealing with a 6 ohm speaker as opposed to a 8 ohm speaker, go for 14 gauge.
Speakers are rarely an even 8Ω or any Ω for that matter. For example, a KEF LS50, nominally rate 8Ω by KEF, has an impedance curve from below 4 to more than 20Ω. see https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements 

You were correct on "you'll never know 'til you try" and if you'd said "...the manual may not cut it.", you'd have been spot on.
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
Silver conducts 5% better than copper.

R has the LEAST effect of LRC.
Same geometry, same sound.
Silver is Audio Jewelry.
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
@markalarsen Just as some are tone deaf or colorblind, some just cannot distinguish the difference. I've participated in tests with top drawer equipment and could tell better than 80% of the time, while others did not do any better than guessing.

@dave_b I have Transparent and have had MIT. They work for me with my gear. They won't work for everybody. I took both companies' marketing with a grain of salt.
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
Some might find this Cable Snake Oil Antidote interesting with respect to LRC, the signal and the system.

Cables affect the sound and the effect is system dependent.

Another's opinion on a cable in a vastly different system may not be valid.

@geoffkait - 
Since all wire is directional...

Directionality was also ignored... please point us to relevant tests or simulations or calculations showing deltas from reversing zip cord in the audio spectrum. 
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
^^^
Did you re-plug any interconnects while changing the power cables?

What was the A/C power condition?

Did you re-plug the old ones  B E F O R E  changing. If not, then it is quite possible that better contact accounted for the delta.

Lack of Rigor = Saleman's Best Friend
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