Who says studio monitors are "cold and analytical"?


Who says studio monitors are "cold and analytical"?  Does that mean audiophile speakers are warm/colored and distorted?   If Studio Monitors main goal is low distortion, does that mean low distortion is not something audiophiles want?  They want what, high distortion?  "Pretty" sounding distortion?  Or find pretty sounding speakers that make bad recordings sound really good?  What is the point of searching out good recordings then?  They won't sound as intended on a highly colored distorted speaker!   

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Showing 11 responses by lonemountain

That is not a symphony concert, it's scoring session.  You can tell from the Decca Tree mic arrangement up high behind the conductor.  

There were several major scoring engineers who used to use B+W for monitoring in the past.  They two best known are now on ATC.  I suspect this is an older picture of an Alan Meyerson (Hans Zimmer's guy) scoring session LA. 

 

Brad

Wow, no idea we's start off with a complete lack of understanding of an entire industry.

There is no "tuning" of loudspeakers in any factory I have ever seen or been aware of.  There is some engineering that happens long before the speaker is built, and the choices the design engineer makes could possibly be considered "tuning"- how wide a bandwidth, what driver elements, ported or sealed box, etc. But certainly not in an adjustable way other than some small crossover tweaks are possible after assembly.   So this notion a company "tunes" for a market is BS.  Especially the idea audiophile speakers have a specific curve or studio monitors have a curve or this goofy idea of a BBC dip.   This is all made up crap people use to explain things they don't understand or a marketing person uses to promote a brand. 

Kenjit

NO.   A Designer knows what he wants before he ever puts pen to paper.  He doesn't need to try caps in crossover, he knows what values equal a given result.  You really believe speakers are designed in a hunt and peck fashion?  A designer may adjust a few things if they don't work precisely the way he thought, but there is no "tuning like a piano".  The only way this trial and error method of creating something happens is if the builder/designer is completely untrained and is fishing for some combo that "works" by ear.  This is NOT how modern speakers are designed - not in this day and age of klippel and CAD.  

Studio people work for the music creators.  I can assure you, because I know them and visit them/talk to them, the engineers that work for people like Tom Petty or Pink Floyd spend many many hours getting the sound just right, so the artist is happy.  It must sound amazing or they are fired.  Unless you want to make some ill founded argument the artist doesn't know what he or she wants, or some other equally inane argument that the artist wants their mix to sound bad, these engineers spend enormous time just getting the sound to be right.  You absolutely have no idea what you are talking about. Stop confusing people with this made up crap, pretending you have some special insight.  

All this stuff you write above is completely wrong- I work in the industry and none of it is true. 18 inch woofers and 10 inch midranges with massive horn tweeters-what a dumb thing to say. NO ONE uses anything like that to track or mix anymore and hasn’t for 20+ years= probably since the last Poison record.

Monitors are NOT in huge rooms, they are small control rooms about the size of a living room or listening room at home. The only big rooms left are used for tracking a film score. This kind of dumb stuff you write lets everyone know you are using a magazine article from 1975 as if it were true today.

NO, he's finished the bottle and is on to the hard stuff.

 

 

 

 

One last time kenjit

These far field monitors you see in photos are used to impress the talent, not to mix or track.  They were usually built in with the studio, which was often built 30-40 years ago.  In the rare case when the farfields are good enough, such as ATC or sometimes PMC, you will find some studios using them for mixing- but it's rare.  Blackbird, UMG, Spotify are a few that come to mind that have such far fields you can mix on.  

The near field is the way mixing is done 99% of the time now and has been since engineers had to travel to work in many different studios, not park themselves in just one.  The near field idea was simple, don't create so much energy that reflections dominate the sound, sit close to them and you can get a pretty consistent sound in many different rooms that way.   The purpose of a nearfield monitor is NOT to be flat, it's to achieve translation and to identify errors in balance and/or details.  It so happens that being flat, low distortion and consistent off axis is the best way to get that translation and identify errors.  

Nearfield are very similar to what people use at home and near field principles can can be quite useful to the home user.  The principle is to sit close, increase the ratio  of direct vs reflected sound.  It's easy to test this in any room- get yourself in a 3 foot triangle and see.   Most people complain about speaker sound are really complaining about what the room does to the speaker.   Its a room demo, not a speaker demo. 

Certain types of studio monitors (NS10s, Auratones) or older ones with big smiley curves in them (JBL 4311's, etc) are not suitable for home and aren't really a good example of what the modern studio "monitors" look like/sound like anymore, this is the past.  Most top level mixers have moved on long ago to ATC 25s or 45s or maybe barefoot or PMC - something that can accomplish dynamics and identify errors better.  These speakers sound very good to most of us and are suitable for home (ATC's home version of the 25 is the SCM40; PMC has their equivalents also).  In reverse, most hi fi speakers have too limited dynamics as drivers are not built for high heat.  Some of them sound okay but just cannot endure the studio world of long term all day and night loud use.  Reliability is a big deal when you are on the clock.   

Most German pro audio is driven by high end broadcast (by US standards) as defined by the government specification; so Neumann is primarily a speaker designed for the enormous European broadcast world, which often has digital inputs on speakers as a requirement.  Don't see them a lot in the US commercial studio market, but I know they sell well to the home studio market where SPL is not a big issue.  Yes they are good.  But we need dynamics here of over 100dB, maybe up to 106dB, and many broadcast oriented speakers cannot achieve that.  They don't need to in meeting their design goal (a guy mixing World Cup isn't about "rocking it out" for his client).  A speaker at average 92dB-95dB SPL for 12-15 hours can fry most OEM drivers, or at least send them into severe power compression rendering them useless.  This is why ATC builds their own drivers, so they can achieve this.  The is also what originally built JBL, they built their own voice coils that could endure very high heat. 

In Europe, ATC 's market is equally split between home and studio. In Asia and China, ATC is 95% home audio market.  A lot of folks like the idea of a hand made English hi fi system since almost all the old hand made companies are gone.  Here, its 95% studio because ATC had bad luck with US hi fi distributors so it was never built up.   The idea that ATC is a studio speaker is really more reflective of sales, not reality. 

Brad

I find this thread funny, people say "class D" as though anything Class D sounds like everthing else Class D. Years back we tried building a CLass D amp at my shop, I wanted a low cost decent studio (no fan) amp. We started with off the shelf hypex modules and jsut used it as described and it was awful So then we realized the power supply was the problem, you needed the upgrade power supply-yes-much better! Still not as good as the Class A/B amps I had around, so we built an even larger power supply- better yet again! Then we realized the front end was not adequate (analog portion before the amp itself) so we modified that to be close to something one would see with a decent audiophile or pro amp (the ATC P1 and P2 are my benchmarks). Another step better. By the time we were done, I spent as much on the Class D as one could expect to spend on a good Class AB amp. It finally sounded good, competitive, but didnt save anyone money. It was suprising to me at how much sonic difference each step made. It gave me deep respect for the designers who can build a class D inexpensively and make it sound good. Class D was not the miracle I was hoping for.  I ended up wondering, why bother?

Brad

Ghdprentice

i don’t think you have the purpose of studio monitors right at all, no matter your friends have inferred by sales to their clients.

A studio record is a sonic painting, from the mind of the artist working side by side with a skilled set of engineers (tracking and mix engineers may be the same or may be different)  who can make the artist’s sonic painting happen.  What artist wants playback to be anything other than sonically extraordinary?  
 

Brad
 

Directionality?  

 

It’s a shame people cannot see music in the different realms they are created and envisioned in. Pop music is completely different from something like Lenny Kravitz or Tom Petty or John Williams or James Newton Howard. If audiophiles throw everyone into the same basket that’s sad and not at all what the artists have in mind. Imagine looking at modern art and saying a Picasso is the same as Dali -they are “paintings”.

brad

@donavabdear 

It's nice of you to think so, but to be correct I am NOT an acoustic engineer.  I am really the behind the scenes product manager and also the one who talks to customers and visits studios (a "technical sales" function).  However, I have a strong belief that selling by convincing isn't really possible, people figure that out.  The only way to "sell" in pro or consumer is to educate and let smart people figure out their own answers.  My mission is to reduce the typical misinformation to the engineering department (factories operating on incorrect assumptions) and from the engineering department (buyers misunderstanding product values).

Brad  

@thespeakerdude 

Learn more type less...

Learn more type less...

Learn more type less....

This is a very wise mantra to follow on forums.