Which USB reclocker is as good as the Innuos Phoenix USB?

@tjag Galvanic isolation is good, what about clocking and power supply on usb input. Generally, best usb boards supplied by companies like Amanero, XMOS, provide all three of these critical needs for optimized usb input on dac.

Unless one has done direct comparison in their system, only assumptions being made.

Lots of usb reclockers, decrapifiers, renderers/streamers out there, doubt there is some objective heiarchy of quality. The Phoenix does have quality design and parts, and advantage of a single integrated box.

I've gone optical route with Sonore OpticalRendu, sounds mighty fine to me. Does require top flight outboard lps to excel.

Its all good, streaming is complex, I don't have all the answers.

Well, in relation to those positive Phoenix reviews, were they used in combination with an optimized renderer. The Innuos Zeniths don't have optimized rendering, only the Statement does, adding the Phoenix to that would be redundant.

Quality internal renderers already do what Phoenix does. The reason Phoenix has good reviews is because they're being used with less than optimized rendering.  I doubt you'll ever see Phoenix partnered with servers like Wadax, Pink Faun, Taiko Extreme, certain models of Antipodes. At top end of servers, no need since they essentially have a Phoenix built in to them. For the mid price and lower server with non-optimized rendering, the Phoenix would likely be of benefit. I contend, along with others, that a streamer/renderer does the job better than the Phoenix or any usb filter/cleaner device. A quality streamer is going to do a much better job rendering vs the server without quality rendering. The quality steamer cleans the network,  filters and clocks the usb (doing the job of Phoenix), and renders better than those servers. Bottom line, you're getting far more bang for the buck, three functions for the price of one!

UltraRendu does have two Femto clocks,one for network, other for usb, also does usb rendering. So, in fact its network and usb device. Sonore in different league vs prior SOTM SMS 200 Neo.

At this point I'm mostly in jjss49 camp as far as dedicated usb decrapifiers, reclockers. A server that optimally renders usb should negate the need for such a device. Those that don't can use audiophile switch with quality clock, connect to streamer that does quality rendering, finally dac which should have quality usb board. Quality rendering means good noise filtering and clocking, why add another device, redundant with quality internal clocking.

I should add, most streamers are going to require quality outboard lps for best sound quality, certainly brings cost up. Still, even with this, I believe good value vs. Phoenix or any dedicated usb only device.

Not saying Phoenix not good for what it does, based on  Innuos description and reviews I believe it does what it does well.

I surmise these reclockers derive most of their improvements by lowering the noise floor rather than the reclocking. Servers are likely the noisiest component in streaming system,  the Phoenix should be providing lower noise floor.

I too am skeptical of adding multiple clocks, clock in renderer and usb board in dacs should do the job. At one point I added audiophile switch to my streaming setup, the OXCO clock in that far superior to the relative crap one in my router. Result was by far the worst addition to my streaming in five or six years of experimenting with various streaming components.

Ed Meitner of EMM scoffs at these various add on clocks, claims they do nothing or screw up timing. He states clocks should be internal, placed closest to circuit their providing timing for. He hears lower jitter mostly as affecting sound stage at this point, most of the jitter that we hear as digititus has been decreased to the point this only impacts lower level digital. Funny thing was, the audiophile switch I added decreased sound stage size, etched image outlines, I did hear more detail. This tells me something about adding another clock in that switch, I presume mismatched or excessive clocking.

Again,  optimize the usb rendering and input in dac, good to go, this best implementation of clocks.

@tjag What you should look for in all these reviews is what server is being used, this will tell you what purpose Phoenix serving. I suspect everyone of those servers is not optimizing usb rendering, this means using inferior clocking and noisy usb connected directly to motherboard, not good.

The problem with streaming is you can never get back what you lost, nothing that comes after a weak link can be recovered. This means information lost from high noise floor can't magically reappear, bad timing emanating from poor rendering cannot suddenly be re-timed at point of rendering, re-clocker is only band aid. You want to fix things at the source, band aids may help, but the damage remains.

I don't get why the guy inserted Phoenix between Devialet and ultrarendu. The Devialet has non-optimal usb rendering so I understand the improvment using sonore and phoenix. Reviewer should place UltraRendu directly after Devialet, listen, then add Phoenix AFTER UltraRendu. I'd bet on no better or dimiinished sound quality used in this order. If the guy added Phoenix after having previously used Devialet direct to UltraRendu, I'd suggest further lowering of noise floor with Phoenix here, benefited UR, redundant clocks don't help. I'd also like to know what power supply reviewer uses with UR, quality of this has great impact on noise floor of that unit.

I don't know if some don't get it,but ALL servers ARE COMPUTERS. They all have noise producing motherboards, most run off noisy switching power supplies, and they connect rendering ports directly to this noisy motherboard. They also use the clocks off motherboards, you'll never get quality rendering out of these computers they call music servers. Certainly, they have some advantages over regular old general purpose computers, mostly in form of optimized operating systems, and most attend to motherboard noise in various ways. But to realize big gains over gs computers requires going to music servers that do quality rendering and/or separate streamer which requires adding a switch if not already  incorporating one. The high end server is likely the superior means of doing things, simple and optimized all in one. I'm talking $10K up servers, and some of these don't even do highest quality rendering. So, we can then go to separate streamer, who cares about quality rendering within server at this point, server is only going to contain music player library and do processing for music player such as Roon. So then we need to do the quality rendering in streamer, I think this is the way to go for many, lots of good streamers and lps to power them, spend like $2k for variety of servers, power it by lps, then streamers all over the place in price, all likely preferable to crap rendering off server motherboards. The streamer will generally have advantage in noise as its such a simple circuit compared to complex server motherboards, and you'll nearly always have superior clock to the motherboard  clock on non optimized servers. Get an lps for streamer, good to go. By the way, streamers ARE COMPUTERS as well, just simplified to serve far fewer purposes.

I  just don't get the continued fascination with all the rendering cleaners, reclockers, filters, blah, blah, blah. Do the job right with getting the rendering done optimally in first place, the dac usb board, if good one, will do the rest of the job.  You can't do any better than getting these two things right, simple, direct, optimized. Or do as Latik says, take care of the streamer from within the dac, then you only have to concern yourself with server rendering.

I understand many are mislead by the many good reviews of these 'band aid' items. @tjag The guy with Devialet has so much complexity with his streaming setup I can't make heads or tails of it. As mentioned previously, good reviews likely due to lowered noise floor with these devices, hell, I've seen guys daisy chain these devices, most report positive outcomes. The point I'm trying to make is people are spending far more money than need be for less than optimal results. I don't doubt people are hearing better sound quality with these devices, just better ways to do it then complexity and the marginal gains people getting with these devices.

I'll continue to repeat, these devices are only band aids. The INITIAL rendering is perhaps the most important process in streaming audio, it is the first in line in passing music signal, get it wrong and you'll never hear full potential of streaming. You cannot REPAIR or FIX what you got wrong in first place, the incorrect timing and noise produced DURING  the rendering process cannot be taken back.

I'd suggest for anyone not currently optimizing rendering, dump the band aids, get a server or streamer with optimized rendering and report back on sound quality. I bet everyone will have larger, more organized sound stage, and more natural, analog like presentation, some may also experience more low level information. All this assuming one's system has sufficient resolving capability.

And I have experienced the difference between proper rendering vs usb decrapifier in that at one point I had Uptone USBRegen, thought it nice addition until I experienced decent rendering via SOTM SMS 200 Neo.While the Uptone not the last word in usb filtering,it was easily bested by SOtm which is also not last word in rendering. Beyond this experience, I've learned from greatly informed and knowledgable streamers and designers. Put that together with informed logic and you'll find this is valid path for obtaining optimal streaming sound quality.

Nyev gets it, do it right way from beginning of chain, no need to waste money on band aids.

@tjag The above experience  isn't definitive in streamer vs reclocker  superiority as the Chord MScaler doesn't have optimized usb board, really meant for BNC input. I bet tables turned using dac with optimized usb board.

Antipodes is actually good platform for trying various schemes, optimized for both streaming or server only.

Always keep in mind quality of usb in dac is critical to determining best scheme. Doesn't make sense to reclock prior to quality usb board clock in dac,  does for inferior dac usb.

@tjag  Wow, you are one confused person!  

Many, many dacs have optimized usb inputs, look for XMOS, Amanero or proprietary schemes, not hard to do and doesn't cost a fortune.

I stated many nice streamers out there, preferable to usb decrapifiers, reclockers since they provide these services plus superior rendering to that in most servers. I'm not saying get audiophile server, only that streamer will provide superior rendering vs the server.

You really have a problem with reading comprehension. I could provide a wide range of streamers, servers, dacs that do all of the above very nicely, and doesn't need to cost a fortune. My own streaming setup would be considered relatively cheap or expensive depending on what its being compared to.

I've had a single and constant criticism in posting on streaming. That being server rendering is far from optimized in most servers. You don't need to take it from me, read experiences of other experienced streamers, many over at audiophilestyle forum.

As for interactions with you, I"m done, you need confirmation for your biases, won't get it from me.