which turntable or how to convert to balanced phono setup?

lewm

... I finally found the owners manual on line. It is very dumbed down ...

I thought the same! A component such as the PE 505 really deserves a better manual.

Note the caveat on page 9 about feeding the balanced inputs from a TT wherein the outputs are grounded to the TT or tonearm. As they say and I said, this negates the balanced operation.

Oh yes, of course, absolutely agreed.

I'm glad we were able to clarify this matter for the OP and everyone else, @lewm and I wish you the best. 

lewm

...  I originally assumed you were referring to the case where you feed a signal from a SE component (NOT a phono cartridge)

From the beginning, this thread has been about the Teac PE 505 balanced phono preamp. I’ve not spoken about anything other than phono in this thread and here’s what I wrote back on 6/18 - the second comment in this thread:

Most turntables/pickup arms provide inherently balanced outputs although - strictly speaking - they’re really floating. That is, they have a separate + and - for each channel, and a ground that is not connected to either. (That’s the purpose of the separate ground wire.)

Hopefully you now understand that in the Teac the RCAs do not "ground the negative phase of a balanced signal inside the chassis and convert to SE operation," contrary to your claim.

lewm

What I am talking about, what you say happens, is feeding a differential amplifier with a single-ended signal where you say the SE signal is converted to balanced mode.

I've never said that because the turntable output isn’t singled-ended. It’s balanced, (floating) and in the Teac then processed by a differential amplifier. I’m puzzled as to why you struggle with this simple concept, or why you’d question that the Teac is "... a fully-balanced circuit design throughout all stages."

Did you watch the McGowan video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiF4sWRlsQw

lewm

That would be a neat trick indeed, without a transformer to do the job. I suppose it could be done with an active device, too, but that would be suboptimal, because it requires a processing step in the signal path ...

@lewm, please, with all due respect to you, this is just mistaken. A differential amplifier, which is what the Teac is stated to use, is a type of balanced amplifier. It doesn't use transformers or other active circuitry to be balanced, and is commonly used in audio. Here's an explanation from Paul McGowan that may be helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiF4sWRlsQw

lewm

Reviews suggest the RCA inputs (and outputs) on the PE505 offer the option of unbalanced operation, as I suggested might be the case.

Of course you're running unbalanced if you're using the RCA outputs. But it looks like it's fully balanced when using the RCA inputs and XLR out, at least according to this "review":

From the head amplifier to the equalizing amplifier sections to the buffer amplifier section on the final output stage; the PE-505 employs a fully-balanced circuit design throughout all stages ... Even unbalanced signal on the conventional RCA input is converted to the differential processing mode right after the input terminals. (Emphasis added.)

dover

You said you've never heard it. Why do you post speculative brouhaha about something you've never heard.

That is the logical fallacy known as the excluded middle:

... the principle of excluded middle states that for every proposition, either this proposition or its negation is true ... Another Latin designation for this law is tertium non datur or "no third [possibility] is given". In classical logic, the law is a tautology.

Audio Reference phono stage you refer to is quite different to what's being discussed here. Personally, I rate them 3rd class - crass, noisy and fragile compared to top units available today.

Would you please tell us about your experience with ARC reference phono stages? I'd be happy to share mine.

lewm

Do you know for a fact that the RCA jacks on the TEAC offer input to the balanced circuit? More likely the RCAs ground the negative phase of a balanced signal inside the chassis and convert to SE operation.

I've not examined a Teac PE 505. But it's shown as "dual monaural and fully-balanced input/output circuit design" on the manufacturer's page. It would be most odd if it unbalanced the inherently balanced (floating) signal that it gets from a turntable. But I suppose anything is possible.

lewm

I realize you love ARC, and I’ve figured out that’s why you keep bringing up RCAs ...

No, I mentioned RCA connectors because it was responsive to the OP's question:

... aside from those tables that have xlrs outs, is it just a matter of finding a din to xlr tone arm cable?  or is there more to it? I dont understand the differences between tables like mine that have RCA outs

I just wanted him to understand that with his Teac phono preamp he'd get the same result whether using RCA or XLR connectors.

Anyway, every balance phono I’m familiar with offers XLR inputs.

That’s unfortunate. If you ever have the chance, give a listen to an Audio Research Reference phono stage. They’re really first class.

audiocanada 

I just ordered a Luxman PD 151 Mark II if I have understood correctly, I can just replace the included din cable with an aftermarket din to lxlr cable, add mc cart, run to my teac balanced preamp... and Im now fully balanced?

Yes, provided your preamp runs balanced into your amplifier. But you'd also be fully balanced if you used RCA connectors into your phono stage. The connectors alone don't define whether the circuit is balanced or not.

lewm

... the general consensus is that the XLR connector is inherently superior to the RCA connector, balanced or not ...

I’ve seen some really exquisite RCA connectors but I’m inclined to agree with you - the XLR design is better from the get-go.

... "he" needs an XLR cable if he is plugging into a balanced phono that offers only XLR inputs.

The OP’s preamp takes has both RCA and XLR connectors on its input.

audiocanada 

is it just a matter of finding a din to xlr tone arm cable?  

dover

The answer to your question is yes. If the tonearm has a 5 pin DIN output all you should need would be a DIN to XLR phono cable. You can ignore all the other piffle waffle.

Here we go again. That is mistaken. He doesn’t need an XLR cable at all for balanced operation in his system:

elliottbnewcombjr

... I would not needlessly complicate a home audio system with xlr ...

XLR is just a type of connector. Why do you think it’s complicated?

... I tried xlr, and found it a waste of time ...

As @lewm suggests above, you probably weren’t using balanced components, so I wouldn’t expect much of a difference.

Most turntables/pickup arms provide inherently balanced outputs although - strictly speaking - they’re really floating. That is, they have a separate + and - for each channel, and a ground that is not connected to either. (That’s the purpose of the separate ground wire.) You need only to connect those outputs to the inputs of a balanced phono preamp to enjoy the benefits of a balanced phono stage. Those benefits include resistance to RFI/EMI and potentially greater gain (or better S/N), depending on the design of the phono stage. To be clear, you won’t get those benefits if you don’t also run your phono stage’s balanced outputs into a balanced line stage.

The type of connector is really secondary - there are balanced phono stages that accept only RCA connectors on the inputs. (ARC, for example.) In your case you can use either the RCA or XLR connectors on the Teac PE 505’s inputs and get the same result.