which turntable or how to convert to balanced phono setup?


Im a total noob with vinyl please bear with me,

I just purchased a b stock Teac PE 505 balanced phono preamp to replace a buggy Gold Note PH5

im looking for a turntable upgrade to run balanced  with an mc cart

so aside from those tables that have xlrs outs,

is it just a matter of finding a din to xlr tone arm cable?  or is there more to it?

I dont understand the differences between tables like mine that have RCA outs (technics 1200 gr2)

and those with "tone arm" cables

 

 

 

audiocanada

Showing 2 responses by atmasphere

In gear that really does offer both a SE and a separate balanced input, the gain claimed by the manufacturer is usually quoted as being different for the two types of input, with the balanced circuit gain being higher.  Why is that or is it a false claim? 

@lewm Let's assume a transformer coupled balanced input. The signal is applied to either end of the winding of the transformer. Now ground one side without changing anything else. The gain remains the same because the same Voltage is applied. 

Now if the balanced source is simply two single-ended sources with one out of phase with the other, if you run that single-ended you only use one of the two sources. This method works but is not AES48 compliant. When both sources are being used the signal Voltage is twice as much so there is a 6dB increase. That is not how its supposed to work if you want the most performance out of the balanced connection. 

In the PE505 owners manual, the data sheet shows the gain is the same via either input type. I took  this to mean that cleeds is correct in his assertion that the RCA inputs are hooked up for balanced operation.

It can mean also that the input is a differential amplifier, such as an opamp. The CMRR (Common Mode Rejection Ratio) is high enough that the opamp won't really care if you drive one input or both. As long as the input signal is the same Voltage either way the output level won't change. IOW the opamp amplifies what is different between its inputs; if one input is at ground its fine with that; the overall gain is the same. 

Do you know why the owners manual for the PE505 says the XLR inputs are for MC cartridges only?

Its a high gain input so can be overloaded with a high output MM cartridge. 

You often quote AES48. What does AES48 say?

AES48 is part of the balanced line standard regime (the other part being the dBm level the source can drive). Essentially its a connection standard; in it we see that the ground circuit (such as the arm tube of a tonearm) is not carrying any signal return (as the shield of an RCA connection might). Instead the balanced line signal is generated entirely with respect to pins 2 and 3 of the XLR connector and carried by the corresponding conductors in the interconnect cable. 

This means it is possible to have a balanced connection with no shield at all, since ground isn't part of the balanced signal. The shield is there for shielding only and nothing else. 

There seems to be fair amount of high end audio balanced equipment that is not AES48 compliant. Such equipment usually has dual single-ended outputs with one of the outputs out of phase with the other, but both referencing ground and therefore fully functional if ground is used as a single-ended signal return with one of the two outputs. 

Put another way a phono cartridge is a balanced source that is AES48 compliant. If it were non-compliant it might have 6 output connections instead of 4, the extra two connections being center taps of each coil (for ground). Its not done that way because a center tap can never be exactly center of the coil and so can significantly degrade CMRR. By allowing it to float CMRR is as ideal as possible.  

 

 

More likely the RCAs ground the negative phase of a balanced signal inside the chassis and convert to SE operation. That’s what Atma-sphere does with their amplifiers, so those who have SE components upstream can stay SE in the amplifier.

@lewm Either I'm misunderstanding this or its incorrect. At no point in our amps does the signal go single-ended. What we do instead with the RCA connection is the center pin connects to pin 2 of the XLR and the RCA ground is pin 1 of the XLR. We then ground pin 3 of the XLR if the RCA is being used instead of the XLR. 

A differential amplifier, present at the input of all our circuits, then converts a single-ended signal from the RCA to balanced operation. No transformer needed. The differential amplifier doesn't care much if the input is single-ended or balanced, since it simply amplifies what is different between its two inputs. If one side is ground, so be it. 

Also, on the page with specs, the gain is not different when you feed the RCAs vs the XLRs.

If the circuit and source are true balanced, and if one side of the source is grounded or not will make no difference to the gain if the preamplifier is really balanced. The reason is the same amount of Voltage is applied to the input in either case. So if a phono cartridge has 1mV output, if that 1mV is applied to a balanced circuit via an RCA connectors (so the inverting input of the balanced circuit is not used) the gain will be the same unless the balanced circuit is not differential or having a transformer coupled input.  Since the CMRR our our phono section inputs is rather high the signal level at the output of the preamp will be unchanged whether the input is balanced or not. 

There is a common misconception that a balanced signal will be 6dB more gain but if the source is AES48 compliant that simply is false.