Which one to choose between two 80K$ tube amps?

@ ferrari330km



You opt for mega watts amp.

Can I ask you what speaker you drive with it?

@fleschler

My golden ratio is 40% on speakers, 20% amplifiers, 20% on front end (digital or analog) and 20% on cables, isolation foot or bed, rack and power management (filter or regenerator).

@mikelavigne

Thanks Mike for your detailed opinion.

After having lived with JA500 for 2 years, i may not go back to it due to too much heat out of it.

But I would like to have a chance to audition David Berning OTL some day.

Thomas

In my listening room, 48 Watts SET is enough to drive my Lansche speaker ( oficial eff 99db/w, but I guess 95db/w).

But I have to save money to afford 80K$ tube amps.

I had spent 30k$ yearly on audio components during last 3 years.

That means I had better not spend any more money for next 2 years

@fuzztone

@ lancelock
I consider getting Zotl Z10e reference 10-watt electrostatic headphone amp for my Stax 009s headphone next year.

There are some exotic amps beyond reach of most folks.

But after having developed this kind of top end product, they could offer more modest priced ones to general public..

Thus it is not a good idea to deride expensive top end product.

About this level of amplifier, it is not easy to say which one is best.

It will depend on synergy with your speaker and your personal music taste.

it is best to audition them at your home before you make decision.

@fleschler 

$38K speakers, $15K amp, $15K pre-amp $7K phono/trans $15K analog, $5K DAC, $5K cabling, $5K tweaks

It sounds like a reasonable plan.

Thomas

I had this post to find out which one people prefer between high power tube and Small power quality tube one.

I have Silbatone 300B SET with silver foiled output transformer.

With WE 300B made in 40’s, it give excellent details, transparent, wide and deep soundstage.

But it does not have enough headroom in my listening space with high vault.


I may get horn speaker with more than 105 db/W efficiency to work with Silbatone in the future.


Or I may drive using active crossover to feed only 50hz or high to Silbaton and 50hz below to my two 18 inches Scaena subwoofers.

Since I had never used OTL, I am also intrigued with one that made by Atma-sphere.


But I am not in a hurry since I am also happy with Line Magnetic 508 48 Watts SET after lot of tube rolling.

It give enough headroom and bass control so that I may not need to use subwoofer.

@mglik

Thanks for your recommendation.

I had listened to many Avant-garde speakers at dealer showroom.

They have too much coloration out of horn to my taste.

I am going to get WE vintage horn system.

The problem is they cost 300k$ or so to get a good one( not replica, no recommendation of replica please, I want genuine vintage one).

I had better stop spending money on small gadgets and save money for my dream one.

@larryi


No recommendation for replica.


I had listened to GIP in Korea but not my cup of tea.

I want a complete vintage system with original box.

Actually I had listened to one in Seoul, Korea 2 years ago for 2 hours and I liked it.

But I could not shell out 300K $ at that time.

I need to save money before searching  one.

My Lansche 4.1 is pretty good for modern speaker.

Thus I may wait until I save enough money.

I do not consider any other options including modern horn.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMtNSB4H5MbCvLRW_yUOEOl3WRBxcf--Jdo_iBJFwEeTH1i-rg4WsWWn5tp03-W1Q/photo/AF1QipMt44zSIw0NovqUoZCHdqHa1CNu4zUSEYxdXFKu?key=VjN

The big one on the back.

I do not remember parts no.

No more question please.


Until I save money, I do want to consider any other options.

Last December, I had pulled for used Scaena 3.2 speaker at whim but have to assemble it yet.

I may do that next week with help of my friend.

But I am not so sure whether it will sound better than Lansche 4.1 or not.


If I buy Western vintage horn, I will get advice from my buddy.

He is the owner of Silbatone with many vintage horn speakers.

@charles1dad

I had not been bothered by JBL DD67000 although it has treble horn.

But Avant- garde round horn seems to make a splashing effect on me.

It is an excellent speaker that some people may like it.

But it is not for me.

@ mglik


There are three factors to choose LM 508 over Silbatone which I keep it under storage.

My listening space has high vault and open to the second floor, thus 8 watts Silbatone has not enough headroom.

The second one is to save Nos WE 300b made in 40's which I already had run more than 10k hours.


The third factor is Line Magnetic 508 is quite good after tube rolling almost approaching 85% of Silbaton in transparency and details.


But i am looking for ways to get Silbtone used with more efficient speaker.

@larryi 

Thanks for your kind word.

It is not easy to find WE vintage horn in original box.

That is the reason why it is so costly to get one.

But as you mentioned, vintage WE horn never lose its value like vintage WE 300B tubes.


I bought WE 300b tube made in 40's at 3k$ 20 years ago.

But it is still working fine after 10k hours.

Some people mentioned Nos WE 300B may last 20-30K hours.

If I sell my used tube, it will fetch more than 5k$.

But I will not do it, since it is  not easy to get one again.

Since I am happy with Lansch 4.1, I may wait 3 or 5 more years until I save enough money to buy vintage Western horn speaker.

Thomas

@atmasphere 

Thanks for your suggestion.

But vintage Western horn sounds like vintage wine which has unique flavor

One of my friend is the owner of Silbatone who display his vintage horn in Munich high end show.

My goal is to have a nice Western vintage horn system before I die.

I may try one of your OTL amp next year since I am curios how ii will sound with my speakers.

HI Mike

I had been bitten by bug for 20 years.

My buddy suggested  me to try out smaller full range model, We755.

But i would rather go for full vintage horn which give natural dynamics and details.

If you attend Munich High End show next year, you could be bitten by bug too.

Western Electric is one of the famous US company dating back to 1869.

But it is harder to find WE vintage horn in good condition insiide US now.

Most good ones are located in Asia or Europe.

Thus I will look for one in Korea with the advice of my friend.

Dear Ralph

It is hard to optimize the sound at open space in public in short time.

Thus you may had been less impressed with his Western vintage systems at Munich.

I had listened to the system in his listening room and modest size jazz caffe where he had spent more than 6 months to optimize the sound.

Audio depends on personal taste. Thus there is no best thing for everyone.


But to me his system is the ultimate pinnacle with natural timber and utmost details.

Jazz vocal sounds so spooky that it seems as if they are in front of you.


I had been happy with Lansche 4.1 since 2007 due to excellent vocal out of plasma tweeter.

Also I had got Scaena 3.2 at whim last December.

I may try your OTL amp with Scaena next year.

I will use those two decent speakers until I can afford genuine vintage Western horn system.

No other modern speakers are within my consideration

Thomas

Hello Ralph

It is not easy to get the "spooky" sound out of system.

Although Lansche 4.1 is not the same league as vintage western horn, it gives almost (maybe 85%) spooky sound driven by SET amp with plasma tweeter.

I used to drive it with Silbatone 300b SET but after moving to larger listening space, I had been using Line Magnetic 508 SET.

I had spent above my annual budget since last December with purchase of used Scaena 3.2 and hundreds of 6sn7 tubes for shootout.

Next year I may try your OTL amp on Lansche 4.1

@charles1dad

Thanks Charles for your kind word.

You got the point right.

With Lansche 4.1 and LM 508 after lot of tube rolling, I almost got the sound that i want.

Only thing that i want as a final step is to get the Western vintage horn.

But genuine full horn is pretty costly so I had better save enough money.


I am also curious how OTL sound with either Lansche or Scaena speakers.

Thus i may try Atma sphere next year which will not be very costly.

Atma shpher use quad 6sn7 tubes as driver stage.

After doing shootout of 6sn7 tubes, I have nice collection of 6sn7 tubes.

Thomas

Charles

Line Magnetic 508 or 805 is quite good with more headroom than most SET.

It also has better control of bass than 100 Watts Rogue Cronus Magnum II fitted with KT120 tubes.

Since ii use, 805, 300b, 6sn7 and 6sl7, it is a dream machine for tube rolling.

If you have Line Magnetic dealer around you, you may ask for home audition of LM805.

Thomas

@nquery



I agree with you that LM 805 or 508 sounds glorious after tube rollinng.

It is kind of hidden gem.

But the choice of any audio components will depend on synergy with amp and personal taste.

Thus it is best to audition it at your home before decision of purchase.