Where to go after Bel Canto Ref1000MKII

I have heard the Nemo amps running large B&Ws (not sure exact model). No doubt that is a very good pairing that would be hard to beat if the B&W sound is what floats your boat.

Larger Mac SS amps seem to be another popular pairing that might work well given the Mac pre-amp already in place.

"I'm assuming these speakers can be taken to a whole different level--big assumption as I've not heard them better, but I've heard only my own pair."

What's the basis for that assumption?

There may be many reasons why your rig does not sound as good as others that are totally different. A lateral move cost wise to a different sounding system might prove to be as effective as a perceived upgrade.

ALways start with nailing the speakers first. Are they a good fit into your room? How are they similar or different from others you have heard that seem better? Are there better options out there for your application? How much of an investment is really needed?

Also just a caution that large B&Ws are not known to be tube friendly. If more tubelike sound is what you seek, then you might want to consider determining a budget and coming up with a good tube amp/speaker combo. Unless your room is very large, it might not end up costing as much as you expect.

If Nola and Nearfield speakers deliver the sound you like, consider those
maybe? The bc should be a good matcn there as well. B&W is a much
different design that may never sound like those.

One of the larger Blue Circle amps might be an interesting option to consider.

Doggie,

THe BC ref1000m has very high damping factor, 1000, perhaps the highest of any amp I know of. That was a selling point for me in my application with my large OHM 5 speakers that are known to benefit from high damping.

Do you know damping factor of the NEmos? I am guessing it is significantly lower.

That would account for the perceived leanness in the bass with the BCs. It is a godsend with the right speakers that benefit from high damping, like the larger OHMs I use, but may result in perceived leanness with some others that do not require high damping. I suspect the Thiels might fall into the latter category but not sure, the B&Ws less so.

WHen I first heard my BC ref1000ms on my Dynaudio monitors, my first reaction was what happened to the bass? What happened is it was more highly damped yet correspondingly more articulate than ever before.

ANd yes, I agree that use of a tube pre-amp works very well to help balance things out.

I use the ref1000ms with both large OHMs and small Dynaudio and Triangle monitors. The Dynaudios draw me in every time, though some might still consider the bass to be towards the lean side. Even more so with the Triangles. With the large OHM 5s, pretty much close to perfection I would say.

SO bottom line system synergy top to bottom is important and damping factor of amps should be a major consideration.

Also consider that the EC Nemos list for almost $30K a pair from what I read. THe BCs go for $6K. That's a big difference in cost. One would expect the Nemos to hold an edge, however slight that might be. If a tube pre is all that is needed to bring the two closer in performance, that is still quite a trick for the BCs. Not to mention the huge differences in size, weight, and power consumption. Those are really the things that would lead one to go Class D over a high performence monster amp. I know it was in my case. It's truly a David versus Goliath type scenario! Pretty amazing!

"take into consideration that DF is already limited to about 100 by XO inductor (approx. 0.08ohm) in series with the woofer."

Dunno how this works with the large OHM 5 Walsh/wave bending wide range driver so cannot say. If you do please explain. I would be most interested to learn!

I would agree that most likley little if any practical difference likely between damping of 850 and 1000 and perhaps even quite a bit lower, maybe down to 50 in many cases from what I read.

I sought relatively high damping factor for the OHM 5s as an insurance policy more than anything else given what I know about them. The BCs met my DF criteria (50-100 or above) but I chose them mainly for the size/weight/sound/cost value proposition for use with a tube pre-amp specifically. I viewed the very high damping as a good opportunity to test out damping specs well beyond what otherwise might be considered acceptable on paper. After all, the proof in the end is always in the actual listening! What's on paper can only serve to help steer you in the right direction.

The sound I hear is very much in line with what I would expect in a properly damped scenario. THe bass is near perfect almost I would venture to say. Powerful, balanced, extended and most articulate, to an extent way beyond prior amps I have used. I'd describe the sound as relatively lean yet powerful and articulate..which is a good thing to me. Like a well conditioned heavyweight MMA fighter! Those used to or who prefer a fatter and perhaps more typical bass sound might be taken aback, especially at first.

But I can clearly hear differences among recordings and tweaks in ICs, sources, etc to the greatest extent I have ever been able to. I would hate to lose the BCs and have to attempt to reproduce this again. They are just a perfect fit for my application with the big OHM 5s but of course as always, others mileage will vary.

In fact, I could easily go in another direction for any of my other smaller speakers, including my smaller OHM Walshes. THe BCs work well for all these, but they are less of a challenge in general to push to the max.

"Unless woofer has separate amplifier it most likely has inductor in series to attenuate high frequencies. You might find out what is resistance of this inductor to have general idea"

Hmm, thanks KIjanki.

I hate to bug him because I know he is a busy guy, but maybe I will send this question to John Strohbeen at OHM and see what he says. I would be interested to know.

I think the wide range OHM CLS Walsh driver may run full range unattenuated but I do not know for sure. The crossover to the tweet (soft dome I believe) is quite high at 7K or so as I recall.

Or maybe John will see this and post to this thread. He does make himself known here on Agon on occasion though he is generally quite mum about how he accomplishes what he does in his speakers.

KIjanki, what about the question of unusually high damping factor as an insurance policy?

Benefits might be nill or little, but can there be any harm in general in very high DF in interest of assuring control of drivers?

I believe damping factor of amps and application of negative feedback are typically related, but that is a very different and quite complex topic as well.

KIjanki,

I really appreciate the highly damped/articulate/powerful bass with well recorded electronic instrumentation/recordings in particular, though I would agree with the benefits for acoustic bass as well. I cannot listen to many such recordings any other way in that they seem to totally fall apart into a muddy mess if the bass drivers are not optimally controlled.