Tony, No thread is never-ending. (Figure that double-negative out.) It seems to me that the thread did reach a very reasonable conclusion in the form of posts by Atma-sphere and by the OP. Alma-sphere recommended the Technics SL1200G and the Triplanar tonearm. The OP says he bought an Artisan Fidelity Lenco with I am not sure what tonearm. Either of these choices would be a reasonable, but surely not the only, response to the question about "diminishing returns". Of course I would think that, because after 35 years of trial and error, I have happily settled on owning both a tweaked Lenco and several DD turntables. Belt-drive aficionados might think that the OP's original question has not yet been answered (except by the OP for his own satisfaction). I wrote here last year that I believe you have to pay more dollars for a belt-drive than for a DD or idler-drive, to get to the same or similar performance level. For example, the Technics and the Lenco flirt with the performance level of the Walker Audio Proscenium mentioned and adored by Rushton. I agree with Rushton, in one sense; the Proscenium is the best belt-drive I ever heard. But in its present iteration, the cost is ~10X that of the Technics or the Lenco. |
Orpheus, You don't know me at all, so please temper your assumptions regarding my character.
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I hope you are relatively young, and I hope you have the wisdom to pretty much ignore all this advice. Except mine, of course. Start low and slow and listen carefully at each step in your system development. Add and then take away in order to get a bead on what does what. It takes several years to gain a command of the hobby and of how to get where you want to go, and only you can do the work. It doesn't hurt to learn something about electronics and acoustics along the way. Read books.
Basic questions: Do you think you prefer tube devices or solid state? Turntables typically employ one of 3 types of drive systems: Belt, Idler, and Direct. Each of these types of drive system imparts a certain characteristic sound; decide which you prefer. Etc. I would definitely NOT start out by investing in expensive power cords, as you mentioned above. Just make sure your power cords are better than lamp cord and are of relatively thick gauge (For example, Loew's sells 12-gauge power cord that many say sounds great for very little money), and then worry about the rest. |
Thoughts on Clearaudio turntables: Glitzy, over-priced, and no. Lots of chrome and lucite, if that's what you like. Walker or SP10 Mk3, far better, IMO.
Before you buy a Wilson speaker, make the effort to hear one; they are available for audition in some of the better audio salons. You might have to get on a plane, but in the end you'll save some angst.
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You're in good hands with Thom. You're better off taking his advice than trying to derive any useful information from the 80-odd disparate responses on this thread.
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Hometheater, The best thing you wrote in your uncalled for diatribe was, "End of rant". Promise? Because I don't think you're through bitching. You're over, but not through.
Let me see if I understand your twisted logic: By spending money on new LPs, turntables, tonearms, cartridges, and phono stages, vinylphiles are "ruining the business". Yes, it's probably a dying business, but those of us who enjoy vinyl are certainly not to blame for that. Meantime, my advice is cut back on the coffee.
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I think the reason that the question posed by Dr. Porsche has elicited so many disparate responses (and arguments with nattering nabobs of negativism) is that the question calls for subjective opinions; we all have one. I have always had the "feeling" that there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to all or any type of audio gear, but I have no idea where that point lies. I don't think any of us have an answer that is generalizable to everyone else. This dilemma has made a cheapskate out of me, most of the time, and induced me to become a DIY tinkerer and builder. I do know what capacitors and resistors I prefer, but I could not and would not dare tell anyone else where he or she should stop spending money on a turntable. For me, the "answer" is either my SP10 Mk3 turntable, heavily tweaked in a custom 100-lb slate and cherrywood plinth, in which my net investment is around $8K or my Kenwood L07D, restored to OEM operating condition, at an investment of about $3800. But others who prefer belt-drive turntables would scoff at those choices and those valuations, preferring instead some modern $50K piece. I don't take issue with that. This is a fun hobby. I've heard the Walker turntable in its earlier iterations, and it is indeed superb, best sounding belt-drive I ever heard, but I am happy with what I've got.
So, Porsche baby, perhaps you should re-phrase your question or else take the responses that appeal to you the most and go for it. (In my lifetime, I owned just about every model of 356 Porsche ever made, up to and including a Carrera GT Speedster, and then a 550RS Spyder.)
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WRM, If you ask a barbershop question, you get a barbershop BS session.
Yes, Whart, a REAL 1955 550RS Spyder, serial number 0053. James Dean's car was 0055. I got it as a complete but shabby car in 1986, about when values started to rise like a rocket, and I very stupidly sold it in around 1999, after having restored it to perfection. Original engine, transmission, all numbers matching. Sometimes I dream I still own it. Some other times I want to kill myself for selling it. Actually, I would as soon have back my 1959 Carrera GT Speedster. That was a more drivable car for the street and might arguably be as valuable today as a 550. It's more rare than a 550. 100 mph in the Spyder on the DC beltway really focuses the mind, I can tell you.
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Car talk aside, Ferrari250 actually makes a cogent point which echoes something I wrote a while back in the thread; the OP needs to narrow down his choices based on picking a drive system before proceeding. The best of the best belt-drive, idler-drive, and direct-drive turntables will each have a subtle sonic signature that is a product of its very nature. Only by listening in one's own system can one discern which flavor is personally preferred over the long haul. For example, after a lifetime of audiophilia, I find that I prefer idler-drive and direct-drive vs belt-drive, but I realize others may feel differently. What I do think is that it takes more bucks to acquire a belt-drive that can compete at the same level with less costly idler- and direct-drive turntables.
F250, I found the Carrera GT literally in a barn in far northern Vermont in 1979. There was hay in the car, and some of the parts were in the rear of the barn covered with more hay. The owner had advertised it in the NY Times, and up to the time I went to see it, had had virtually no responses, for $12,000 minus the correct engine. I later acquired the factory correct original engine from an eccentric Porsche mechanic in Canada. With its pushrod engine installed, I drove the Speedster from the purchase point somewhere outside Burlington, VT, to my home in Washington, DC, with no top on the car, praying it would not rain and that I would not freeze to death. It ran beautifully, and I enjoyed the trip. There's nothing quite like a long star-lit night drive in a primitive open car.
Yes, Halcro, I would be in clover if I still owned those two cars.
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Dear mmporsche, I think the AF Lenco is one of several good choices available, and it is not crazy expensive, either. Good decision. I own a highly tweaked Lenco L75 myself, so of course I would approve. So it sounds like you've got both "ends" of a system, and all you need is the "middle", the phono stage, linestage, and amplifiers. High quality SET is very suitable for Voxativs but I urge you to consider low power OTL tube amplifiers as well, such as the S30 from Atma-sphere.
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