Right. Best pressings and real good cleaning are so important. And of course the wall current. You will want a motor controller too.
Oleschool, I think real madness starts above $100k for the entire system new. Below that it's alright. Or maybe it's $150k these days?
And $75-$100 or more for each Japanese original pressing let alone pro Japanese original is not madness? I confess, I got a few of them. But if you need 1000 records... |
If you want a great sound, two components are the most important - turntable itself and phono stage. Followed by tonearm, cartridge and cable. Talking new pieces, I would say that $10k/$12k for table/arm, $5k/$7k for a phono stage, $3.5k or so for the cartridge and $1.5k for the cable will get you far enough. Plus perhaps $1k for each power cord. The very first priority is the table itself, don't save much on it. There are so many combinations, it really depends on taste and availability for audition, unless you are ready to take a risk and buy unheard. I myself would only consider British turntables but not necessarily only British tonearms within this price range, not German, American, French, Canadian etc. They know how to make dynamic musical value tables. This means Nottingham, Pear Audio, SME, Avid, Origin Live. If not that I would probably go with better VPI . And I would definitely get tube phono stage, my choice would probably be LAMM but there are others. Choice of cartridge would depend on many things, including in some way on your speakers. As an example, if your speakers are very warm you don't want a very warm sounding cartridge but nor do you want a cold sounding cartridge. You can also fine tune the sound with phono stage tube rolling.
So, I think you are right about the figure of $20k-$25k for the entire analog set-up.
Good luck to you. |
No, don_c55, he is just rich or at least very well off not stupid.
In a few years I plan to enter reel to reel realm, and I am going to be new to it. This doesn't mean that I am going to get something for $500 and enjoy it, it is going to be at least $1k plus service and calibration and plus tapes. It is stupid to spend less than needed, more so when you can easily afford good stuff. |
Don, I think we did our best to accomodate you. Perhaps you should take your own advice and go somewhere else. |
As someone very experienced and knowledgeable said, with Walker table/arm things to pay attention to are dynamics and bass. Do not buy it without thorough auditioning. There are good reasons why some people get rid of their Walkers and go with something else, most interesting unusual direction are highly modified vintage Technics SP10-MKIII and other vintage tables. Those Technics are much more than what you are prepared to spend, I guess. |
Turntable is not a precision instrument, even the very best turntables sound different. High mass is no guarantee of high performance and wood can have a place in tomearms and cartridges.
Mmporsche, if you still have your Parasound phono, I suggest you keep it for now and address the phono issue after you have chosen the table/arm/cartridge. You want, if I am right, a close to near reference level phono. Don't rush it, the Parasound would do just fine for the time needed to settle on something much better.
I was thinking about Otari deck too. Studer would be better but much more expensive. Long live the tape. Problem is that it doesn't live too long, for archival purpose it's vinyl. There are some places that claim to have master tape dubbs for sale, I think there was a thread here on the subject. But even if true, the prices are quite high, a few hundred dollars for each. My main idea is not to get those, I am interested in music that was recorded but never officially released. And it is on tape. Don't ask me how I am going to get it, I don't know yet. But I do know what I would be looking for.
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I don't like guns and have zero interest in watches but I do like custom knives. Actually using one in the kitchen, though it is much more than a kitchen knife.
Anyway, many people do double or triple water rinse on regular record cleaner with vacuum after ultrasonic machine. And you don't have to clean records each time before listening to them, you know. I only use vacuum machine and clean the records after 10/15 plays or so. The difference is usually small compared to after, say, 25/30 plays, but a little less noise. |
Nottingham arm is also set and forget it, just spend couple of hours or less to set the VTA and anti-skate and VTF and leave it alone. Check the settings every year or so just in case or if you hear the difference.
What I most dislike about playing vinyl is cleaning the stylus before playing each side and flipping records every 20 minutes. Cleaning records does take time and effort, but you don't have to do it often unless you constantly buy many records. I think, mmporsche is on the right path, it is just difficult to choose when you have good funds and not many opportunities to compare. But many people keep their tables for a very long time, so it requires a special attention because of that too. |
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I can understand how to do everything but that doesn't mean I am going to do it ".
Exactly. This is not American frontier three hundred years ago. Besides, I think we should support each other as professionals if possible. But, there is one thing that I will always do myself even if I am not in the mood and that's sharpening a knife. I was taught the basics and then spent hundreds of hours to perfect the technique. Yes, I can always send my custom knives to the makers who will sharpen them for free, but not better than I can, faster but not better. You do it by ear and by touch - any knife, any original angle, no guessing.
Mmporsche, you should enjoy playing reel to reel deck, including music recorded from your favourite record albums. Decks are great, you just have them serviced from time to time and clean the heads every, say, twenty five hours, and that's about it. |
Some others might disagree but I wouldn't rush to spend thousands on isolation platform and footers. I mean Vibroplane, K-Minus, SRA custom, top of the line Stillpoints. Any of them might be the best solution for your particulat table but not nesessarily so, besides, they are quite expensive. It's not possible to know what would work best without experimenting. You could ask the table manufacturer for the advice, in addition to your " local experts ". Many just use thick maple platform with good brass cones under it or Symposium platform with rollerblocks. Neither is the best, I suppose, but may be close enough depending on the table and hearing abilities. With my modest set-up I can't hear the difference between 2" and 3" thick maple platform under my table, I keep 3" one though because my table is on the floor and the 3" is much heavier and sturdier. |
Wrong. Our collective has more knowledge than one man. Besides, we don't want to sell any turntable to him, except for that Walker offer.
As for the dealers unwilling to let you hear the tables in your home, well, in their view you are not very likely to buy from them and I understand that you didn't offer them 'consulting fees' for this kind of audition. Pay them and you'll almost certainly get it. I don't know about Colorado but in New York City area if you pay enough someone will come to clean your record before you want to play it at just about any time of the day. But that 'enough pay' should be good enough. It's modern America, money rules, big money. |
I see. It's a damn problem and internet shopping does more harm than good. |
If someone doesn't mention his preferences in music and generally doesn't go into details, then there are reasons for that and in any case it's his business. Why push the man, even by some with elements of attempts at almost brainwashing ? Is this the price of 'club membership' to be like most? Also, some obviously envy his financial resources to a large degree. But even envy can be presented in different ways. He has to go on the defensive from time to time because we force him to.
Bill's idea of local audiophiles is an excellent one, but I don't know if it can be realized, for various possible reasons. It's not West Coast, it's Denver, Colorado.
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Yeah, SME 20 with one of those arms should do it. I would choose a dynamic cartridge to complement them to make it a great pace maker. You race cars and won't tolerate lazy vague thick 'overly musical' euphonic sound. Lyra, perhaps..? And maybe LAMM phono with Purist Neptune or Corvus tonearm cable. If LAMM matches your amp, of course. Cartridges come and go, great phono will last for decades. In this case I would match the cartridge both to the arm and to the phono, not phono to the cartridge. If I remember right, LAMM doesn't have many adjustments or highest gain, but you won't need them if you match well. I doubt that there is a better phono stage within this price range, only different. But you might want MM not MC cartridge, you didn't say it or I missed it.
Just to make it clear, this is most likely not the turntable that I myself would get but I would seriously consider it. But I would get the LAMM and Purist cable and probably Lyra too. |
I believe, there is a big difference between freedom of expression and freedom of defecation. There are unfortunately a few low resolution brains working here.
I think, the OP will consider what we had to say and will make his choice soon. Whatever that will be should sound excellent or better.
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As usual, Bill says it well.
Oleschool, I had no idea you like Nottingham, you always mention VPI.
The word is, including Fremer’s word, that Pear Audio’s $10k top of the line table/arm are exceptional. Pear Audio tables/arms is reincarnation of Nottingham reflecting the latest disigners’s ideas. I haven’t heard that table, few did actually, but given a chance I could take a risk and get it. The alternative for me would be Nottingham Dais with their best arm. But as I said, I would consider SME too, unless I just decided to get the Pear Audio. |
Today's fantasy may be tomorrow's reality. At this level, as I said, I have faith in British tables. When you go even higher, everything is open. However, I will never go higher, this level would be enough for me. Besides, I am planning tape project, reel to reel deck, not to mention electronics, speakers and cables upgrades. This should keep me busy for many years. I rarely upgrade but when I do it is always a big step, even if I only upgrade one cable. |
