Where have the long-time regulars gone?


With the holiday season here, I find myself thinking about friends and acquaintances, as well as the good people I have met here on Audiogon. Next month will mark the start of my fourth year of participation on Audiogon, so it is with regret that I note how many of the long-time "regulars" who began this forum are no longer making posts (at least not with any regularity).

I miss the spirited exchange and occasionally sharp differences of opinion that were aired here (although I don't miss the nastiness that sometimes crept into some posts). I always enjoyed and/or learned from the posts by folks such as Albertporter, Cornfedboy , Garfish, Bob Bundus, Tireguy, Trelja, Sc53, and others, and the forum section is the poorer for their absence.

So, I pose a 2-part question: where have the long-time regulars gone, and what will it take for them to return so that this forum section regains its vitality of old?
sdcampbell
Yes, people are always worried that someone will attack them legally; worried that they will become prey. I was a prosecutor in a former life and I have seen that default to greed (predator) and retreating self-interest (prey). The question is what comes first, chicken or egg; seeking safety through limiting adversarial discussion, that might tangentially be laid at managements door, or seeking to keep dialogue mature?

You are right, your gut, that is. It is probably both. The question then becomes whether this monitoring is over zealous. Or, another way, when do people tell themselves that they are doing something for the collective good and really they are doing it to protect themselves (inauthenticity), and, secondly, even in that context, does the action taken exceed what would be proper if they were, in fact, looking out for the general good?

I think, in the beginning, the former behavior was more prominent. This is understandable because 1) the fear of litigation was highest, or highest felt, and 2) this was coupled with management becoming acclimitized to the measured use of power and 3) a situation in need of being addressed (the flamers that were hiding anonymously as cute and smarter; another issue of inauthenticity). In fact, I have contacted the management previously for explanation, specifically when someone told me that they had been warned for something while posting with me (opposed to me, conceptually) that I didn't think was a big deal. I think, however, with a reduction of some of the more egregious offenders the finger has come off the trigger a bit. Its a matter of inexperience breeding over reaction. I think that period had dissipated, but, obviously left a bad taste in some peope's mouth (which, hint, is what apologizing is for... but then, that would be admitting nunc pro tunc culpability, which might lead to...).

So, the question is, regardless of one's fear of being sued (coersion from other), do you nonetheless strive ahead in favor of unfettered freedom for the all (inclusiveness with other = empathy), even if materialistically unviable?

Well, I never have been much of an appeaser, and have lived a life of the later, at my materialistic loss, but would note that the society you live in - democratic-capitalism - does not function with these objects in mind. The management, in that context, is merely doing the "American" thing. Any self-inetrest exhibited is only a reactive symptom. One that, I would assume - as you see it in the world, not just here - has made you chafe...

So, then, what to do about it?

Starting at audiogon - the symptom - seems to miss the cause.

Which is...?
Asa, could you dumb it down for me? I'm not a lawyer or fluent in Latin. "Nunc pro tunc culpabiltiy"? My chafed response was due to the rejection of a question. I can understand a liableous statement, but not an open ended question. Was it just an effort to prempt the answer? Am I really that naive to believe that Audiogon would be cleany free from legal obligation under the concepts of freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Are these rights only available to those who can afford to buy and maintain them?
I find the whole thing truly disturbing.
What question was rejected? I am not aware of this, so you will have to help and be more specific.

Yes, the law is for sale, as a tacit dynamic. Its an aristocratic transient oligarchy run as an imperialistic capitalist empire; socio-economic status significantly effects outcome. I thought everyone knew that...You see no latin up my sleeve, so percieved.

Nunc pro tunc means retroactive effectiveness, in this context, retroactive responsibility.
After the several incredibly vulgar, threatening personal emails my family received after a minor technical disagreement with Carl I stayed away from Agon until the coast was clear. It was no fun to have my 14yr old daughter open said emails before I could delete them. Phew....
Yet Audiogons censors seem overly active when manufacturers are fairly criticized. For example, they closed an important thread re Electrocompaniet just when their goodwill gesture was coming in to vindicate them! Now THAT's shortsighted, eh?
I've now become somewhat active around here, and hope I'm not seen as one of the boring newcomers. Life's too short, and believe me, there aren't too many places to go and vent when my system just doesn't sound right, or when cruel naive visitors laugh at the funny cables (SPM and my bright red DIY PCs) swim across the floor. Good night folks.
Yet Audiogons censors seem overly active when manufacturers are fairly criticized. For example, they closed an important thread re Electrocompaniet just when their goodwill gesture was coming in to vindicate them! Now THAT's shortsighted, eh?

The Voodoo at work!
Unsound, send it to me personally.

On manufacturers, throughout the hiend there is a dynamic - again, tacit - that 1) justifiably protects reputations from incendiary comments that can ruin a small manufacturer (I've seen reviewers do it), and 2) seeks to hide from you the reliability issues involving a particular model.

So, I can understand a ceratin level of moderation/mediation that protects people who aren't in the position to protect themselves - particularly personal and/or unsubstantiated accusations (remember, a manufacturer would be a fool to engage a disgruntled person on a thread).

But, I can not respect censorship of substantiated ideas, even anecdotal, and particularly if the reason is to protect the reputation of someone whose bad acts should be disclosed (I don't believe that a website provider is responsible for third party liability issues, but I could be wrong - maybe we could be enlightened about this. Audiogon, hint, hint).

The ability to converse with each other about reliability and service, in addition to performance, should be an integral part of the service of this site - but that's just my opinion. If it is not, then, IMO, the management should be explicit in those parameters, which are theirs to set (its a private company). And, then, ours to accept or reject as a proffered product. Again, if they wish, regardless of the letter of the law, to "play it safe" for business reasons, then that is their choice. They should be willing, if so, to stand up and say so, however. BUT, again, that's just my opinion, because other than authenticity issues, they have no legal obligation to do so, i.e. capitalism has no interest in authenticity.

Ah, the vagaries of capitalism (self-interest) and the interplay with democracy (freedom). I always love when the capitalist-identified run into the inherencies of the system they are so attached to...

If you are an "American" then you must be a capitalist. If you are a capitalist, then you must agree with the proposition that for-profit enterprises can set their own rules, within the law, on the disemination of information on their property, and particularly if it is for a profit motive (the only definition we have for a corporate entity is one "for profit", not a word about freedom, authenticity, compassion, etc...).

So, do you feel like an "American" this morning?
Asa, re: (1) yes but even moderators need to practice moderation.
(2) Consumer Reports doesn't seem to have this conflict.
I don't necessarily think a manufacturer would be a foolish to defend themselves.
I agree with you re: not respect(ing) censorship of substantiated ideas, even anecdotal. Again others such as Consumer Reports don't seem to have a problem with third party liability issues.
I agree with you about having the ability to converse about reliability and service, in addition to performance and If it's not, then, the manegement should be explicit in those parameters. Otherwise "conversations" may be taken out of context.
Capitalist are no different than others with regard to running to the inherencies of the system.
One can be an American and not be a capitalist. I do agree that for profit-enterprises can set their own rules, with in the law. Fortunatley the law still rules re: disemination of information. As for definitions, the one used is appropriate and keeps our language understandable.
While in an ideal world I would like to feel like a person living in a world without artifical boundries. This morning (afternoon) I'm content with being an American.
Can we keep this forum on the topic of Audio?

Unsound, you are funny bro! Zen bliss? hahaha... hahahaha, HAHAHA, HAHAHAHAHA....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...