Where are the subs?

I'm not certain at all, just surprised by what I heard from stand-mounted monitors.  It was not that subtle more-felt-than-heard sense the KEF Ref 107/2s are capable of.

The 14' X 19' room used for HT as well as music has a 100" projection screen, and two HGS-15s with SMS-1 bass manger that can make you feel pressure on your chest.  Unfortunately, both need repair, so the only functional subs in the room are two HGS-10s that are not connected.  I'll reconnect the HGS-10s, but really need to haul the HGS-15s to LA for repair.

The organ is introduced in the Saint-Seans 3rd symphony by a pedal note that is more felt than heard, and the big KEF Ref 107/2s reproduced it nicely.  That note is entirely missing with the KEF Ref 1s, and likely to remain so even with the HGS-10s.  I suspect it will take the HGS-15s to recover it.  But I rarely listen to that symphony, more often Bach, Corelli, Mozart, Bill Evans, or Miles Davis, all of which are covered well by the Ref 1s.  I am committed to implementing the four subs, but I do wonder if it's worth the bother to hear such rare notes.

I had used a fully balanced passive 80 Hz 24 dB high-pass Marchand filter between the Ayre preamp and amp with the subs low-passed at 80 Hz 24 dB, but I'm not using that either.  The HT setup includes four LS50 surrounds that are currently inactive.  I do like the simplicity of just a pair of speakers.

noble, I reluctantly gave away the KEF Ref 107/2s because I didn't want to ship them.  The floor is carpeted as is the wall behind the speakers and about 5' of the ceiling above the speakers.  It is a second floor room.  I will try to reconnect the Velodyne SMS-1 bass manager and HGS-10s tomorrow and rerun the acoustic room correction.  For now I'll leave the low-pass at 40 Hz 24 dB/octave without high-pass.  May also connect the Technics SL 1200 Mk 2 and Ayre Pxe phono stage.   

Tim, I will have my HGS-15s repaired, but it takes planning. I’m 83, so I need help to put them in the back of the station wagon, then they need to be hauled to LA within a day or so, a two-hour drive from Santa Barbara. I have several SMS-1s, so I plan to us both the HGS-15s and 10s. Running the automated SMS-1 acoustic room correction is easy, but you can spend hours manually tweaking acoustic parameters if you wish.

I’m skeptical of your last sentence. The Ayre preamp connects to the SMS-1 which connects to the subs. I never use subs without acoustic room correction.

I'd enjoy a visit from you.  I have two setups: (1) Ayre 5 Twenty series digital hub, preamp, and amp with KEF Ref 1s, and (2) Senore microRendu, Ayre Codex, and Ayre A7e amp with LS50s.  Lots of Parasound stuff boxed to sell; beginning to wonder about setup 1.  I think we're a year or two down the waiting list for Casa Dorinda.  Perhaps a pair of KEF LS50s arrayed with a pair of Velodyne HGS-15 and a pair of HGS-10s would satisfy my audio needs.

Tim,

I appreciate your advice. Tony’s visit is motivation to haul the HGs-15s to LA for repair.

As I’m sure you’re aware, an SMS-1 emits a series of pulses through the subs that are captured by its microphone, evaluated, and equalization applied that mainly cuts peaks without amplifying valleys. The process can be for one or multiple subs, so I see no downside in using it. On the other hand, the SMS-1 remote includes an equalization defeat button making it trivial to try the array both with equalization and without.

I had a Marchand 4th order 80 Hz fully balanced passive high-pass filter built for use between the Ayre KX-5 Twenty preamp and VX-5 Twenty amp that I’m not now using. I might want to install that and set the low-pass to 4th order 80 Hz. I’ll trust Tony’s listening judgement on that.

db

Tim, the speakers are on the 14' wall, an HGS-15 in each corner, an HGS-10 behind each speaker.  The carpet on the wall and ceiling are for video projection, not audio.

Tony, as I understand your suggestion for Casa Dorinda the audio chain would be Sonore microRendu to Codex USB DAC to KV-5 Twenty preamp to VX-5 Twenty amp to KEF LS50s.  Or maybe the QX-5 Twenty digital hub instead of the Codex?  It takes either ethernet or USB, and I'd guess the DAC in the QX-5 might be superior, but Gary at Ayre can provide guidance on that.  The preamp feeds the SMS-1 that controls the four subs.

The Marchand is a fixed high-pass 80 Hz 4th order filter with the particular virtue of being fully balanced and passive.

db  

@clio09, Charles Hansen had warned against inserting the active Bryston 10B crossover between the Ayre preamp and amp, and it turned out for good reason.  The sense of the music flowing without electronic intervention was compromised.  Ayre places great emphasis on balanced circuitry and zero feedback, so I consulted Gary at Ayre who thought the fully balanced passive high-pass Marchand filter would not compromise those attributes.

I started with a stripped down setup that has neither high nor low pass, and just Roon as a source.  Are you suggesting I replace the KFE Ref 1s with LS50s for the Casa Dorinda setup -- actually, I've thought LS50s supplemented by a sub array might be a good way to go.

db 

Tim, light from projection can splash beyond the screen. The purpose of the dark carpet (could be dark non-reflective paint) is to control that splash. We achieve a superb 100" video image. I’ve boxed up all the stuff for surround, but four LS50s are still on the side and rear wall.

This afternoon I discovered I could select disc 2 of the Price/Vickers Aida on Roon, so I played selected tracks from the two discs, first using the microRendu, Ayer Codex, and Amp 7e with LS50s, then using the 5 Twenty digital hub, preamp, and amp with Ref 1s.  Unlike my usual baroque and jazz, Aida showed the clear superiority of the Ref 1s.  Whether the superiority would hold with sub arrays added I don't know.