When will there be decent classical music recordings?


With "pop" music the recordings are such that you can hear the rasp of the guitar string, the echo of the piano, the tingle of the percussion ... and so on .... and in surround sound.
Surround sound is brilliant in picking out different instruments that would otherwise have been "lost" or merged with the other sounds.
Someone will say well that is not how you listen at a concert, but that is just archaic. As a friend said many years ago to me ... whats wrong with mono?!
I am sure Beethoven or whomever would have been excited if they could have presented their music in effectively another dimension.
I have yet to come across any classical recording that grabs me in the way it should, or could. Do they operate in a parallel universe musicwise?
I used to play in an orchestra so I am always looking out for the "extra"  presence in music ... in amongst it, not just watching and listening from a distance


tatyana69

Showing 9 responses by tatyana69

Many thanks to everyone for suggestions re recordings. Have ordered some to test!

I don't think composers necessarily wrote for concerts - in the same way, the Beatles did not write songs to sing live..
What is wrong with dozens of mics? The cost of a mic in the scheme of things is nothing, and it is hardly much effort to collate the sounds with all the messing around and remixing that goes on. Days and days are wasted (spent) on messing around so that aspect is not a problem.
I am not sure that the word "purist" should be necessarily linked to  the words "using a minimal number of microphones" One has no need for the other. 
Many of the classical composers were  very happy at providing shocks to their public, even getting banned on many occasions. I would imagine they would have loved to hear their works so that we could hear more exactly what they had written, as so much is submerged in the whole presentation. You would only need to look at any manuscript to see what we are just not hearing.

What I am saying is that in those days the composer wrote the music.... and the only outlet was a concert. Doesn't mean he wrote to accommodate concert precepts
In a similar way, Tchaikowski wrote his violin concerto without understanding the violin - hence it is so difficult
They write the music - and then get it presented in whatever way is infradig at the time

I also have two ears, but I can listen to 360 degrees. When I walk down the road I can hear maybe the car to my side, the plane above, the dog barking to my left etc etc.  I have 7 surround speakers all playing nice separated sounds as far as recordings can facilitate. I am not interested in recreating the sound in a concert - that is my point - it is pretty one dimensional. It is a matter of taste and habit, but we are still listening to old habits of centuries. A bit old hat now methinks - time to move on. As I have written earlier, I am sure the composers would have revelled in breaking away from a strict concert format if they knew how. I am sure there are enough old recordings out there to satiate all old school wishes.
Many thanks for those excellent comments. Yes Deutsche Gramafon recordings are ruined by Von Karajan lifeless presentation. I could  bash a tin can with more feeling than all his recordings put together.And there were FAR to many of them.
I wonder how I can search a catalogue for specifics of recording techniques, as you have mentioned?
It is very dispiriting. For example I must have 7 or 8 recordings of Schubert Impromptus and also of Tchaikowsky Violin Concerto (No 1 ha ..ha) yet only one of each is half decent. Strangely the best recording (sound and interpretation) of the Tchaikowsky was my cheapest - a vinyl lp at 99p. Quality seems to have no correlation with price, but we all know that ! .
And recordings of the most well known orchestras are often disappointing when compared with those lower down the hierarchy   And don't get me started on overrated engineers. Most of them couldn't tell a trumpet from a cornet, or a violin from a viola.
How do I track down the good ones????

 
"The power of a string quartet is not hearing the body cavity resonances of each instrument (though if captured realistically it could be an enhancement), but the music itself.""

If you played in a string quartet or concert (playing is surely one of the best listening options too) your sound image is quite different to listening and you get the sound texture - which is my desire. Where do they stick the microphones on normal recordings? At the front?
Surely a few bang in the middle gives half a chance of presenting the music. And there are so so many dull recordings out there. The majority it seems. When I was younger (in olden times) I had to go from shop to shop to find different and half decent versions of my favourite pieces. Now that is not possible so it is very hit and miss about coming across something worthwhile.
And why was Von Karajan so popular? Always had the most dull as dishwater interpretations ever possible! Killed the music!

That is a very naughty thing to say Vindanpar. People look for different things in music. The main thrust of my argument is that little has progressed in presentation of classical music for many many years. Maybe a few people here and there think about what can be achieved, but generally they are shameful in sticking to old rut fomulae. Maybe there are enough old skool people out there listening happily to combined  sounds for a blob of music, but I doubt it. You will of course disagree, and so be it. Hail mono. So many old composers loved to push sensitivity and listening experiences, and were often getting into trouble. As I have written before, I would imagine that their fertile minds would leap at the opportunities today. Probably most of the marketplace is pretty conservative, so any reaching out would generally be self indulgent and pointless and will pretty well almost die in due course.
I hate jazz, but was caught up in listening to Box Biedebecke. I kept on wondering how many were in the group. After listening more specifically I realised it was the same number, but they kept on swapping instruments. Why? Well apart from being impressive it lent different textures to basically the same refrains. They understood this concept nearly 100 years ago - but it has meandered nowhere since - especially of you want to listen to the blob of music from 20 yards away without the detail. You look at the score of any symphony and I would take huge sums of money off you betting you could not hear more than 30% of what was going on.
Did composers write so you only heard an impression of what they wrote? Of course not. They wrote all the extra bits you just will not hear because they knew they were writing to satisfy their own mind.
You can hear the blob music on Itunes and so many people are clearly happy at all the limitations of that. 
As a young girl who worked for me once said "Who are the Beatles?"
My equipment is good enough to get anything possible from the source, and as you know the better the equipment, the worse is the sound from bad recordings ..... relatively.
I do appreciate suggestions of quality recordings. so thanks - I will research.


Surround processing in music is not random division of sound, it keep the natural front imaging but extracts from the general noise certain aspects. A drum beat may be set at the right of me, and maybe a trumpet at my left ear. What this does, apart from allowing the individual sounds to be heard that are usually "lost", is have less mash of sound coming from two speakers if in stereo - and, in stereo, if you have a lot going on at any time it can confuse the speaker. I listen to my vinyl too in surround sound and love the ability to hear lots of "stuff" that is submerged in stereo.
My second system is of less quality but seems to have more "old fashioned atmosphere" - so it is a question of satisfying itches at any time.
I hope some of the recommendations placed on this thread will help me find quality recordings that will  present the actual music better than usual, and revitalise my interest in classical music.