When rap came out 30 years ago I thought it was just a fad

Rap is a form of rock and roll.  Go back and listen to Chuck Berry or 60's era Dylan.

When Buddy Holly broke nationwide he opined that the rock phenomena might last a year or two.  Little did he know what the future would hold.

I think Neil Young had insight:

"My my, hey hey
Rock and roll is here to stay
It's better to burn out
Than to fade away
My my, hey hey.

Hey hey, my my
Rock and roll can never die
There's more to the picture
Than meets the eye.
Hey hey, my my."

Some people just can't see the true picture.

Tostadosunidos, to say that rap isn't part of rock and roll is historically incorrect.

Dumbing down...wasn't that the original criticism of rock and roll.  Dumbed down R&B.  Each to their own dumbness.

Tostadosunidos, what's your definition of music and what's your definition of rock and roll?

Tostadosunidos, thanks for the well written and reasoned response.  It gives great insight into your previous statements.

You make the point that music has to be interesting, which I can see as necessary for music to be likable, but not for it (the sounds) to be music.  The question then becomes "interesting to who?"  Based upon record sales and 30+ years of staying power rap/hip hop is clearly interesting to a large part of the populace.  I just think it would be more intellectually honest for you to avoid statements where you declare "rap is not music" and simply say you don't find it interesting.  I too don't find most rap (or modern pop music) that interesting, but I do recognize it as music.

PS's comments are totally appropriate in light of what others have posted in this thread.

Tostadosunidos, if music is organized patterns of rhythm, harmony and melody (well a minimum of two out of three), is it at least a possibility that you simply might not have the knowledge to understand how the musicians are using these elements?  With all due respect, while you are engaging in a discourse you seem to have closed your mind on the subject.

Still interested in how you define rock and roll.

BTW, didn't western civilization start to decline during the heavy metal years?

Most of music is about nuance within established forms.  Your comments about rap being jump rope rhymes over simplistic beats or your reference to RHCP as rappers suggests you are not familiar with or attuned to the nuances of rap.  I could be wrong and you could have an encyclopedic knowledge of rap, but you certainly haven't expressed it in this thread.

Regarding having a closed mind -- it was you who said rap is not music and it is not rock and roll.  Both statements are fairly extreme positions that are in opposition to mainstream thinking.  If 80% of the people think rap is music, then it probably is music for there is the wisdom of the crowd.  It's similar to 50,000,000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong.  It really is incumbent upon you to prove your assertion and your comments about comedians and beatnik jokes aren't very convincing.

Jafant, you left out knocking up white girls (thank you Gov. LePage).