Whats with the Watts ??

We need to know the efficiency of your speakers first. Do you know that? Or, tell us what brand and model speaker you plan to use.

That's a good sized room (about 5000 cubic feet), so I'm betting that you'll need 200 watts or more, UNLESS you select some very efficient speakers.

Dave

03-20-08: Silver911 said:
"I haven't purchased speakers yet, though I've listened to quite a few. The more I audition, the more difficult the decision becomes. Since the audio dealers in my area don't seem to seel the same brand amps, I can't tell if the speaker sound I like or dislike is more the speaker or amp."

Focus on the speaker first. It's reasonable to assume that the dealers will use an amp that decently shows off the speaker. As you listen, ask about the power requirements of the speaker.

What will be your usage and how large will your listening room be? You really need to start there, then select a speaker that will fit and finally move to the amplifier. Of course you budget will set limits. Are you talking $1000, $5000, $10000, or what? That's no joke. Each is a ligitimate price point for an entire two-channel system.

Dave

03-21-08: Silver911 said:
"I play guitar. I have two amps I use - both are tube. I would never consider using SS. Sound is night and day to me so go figure that I seem to lean towards SS in home audio. One amp is 40W and the other is 50W. Both are very LOUD. Is there any general correlation I can make between these and the wattage I need for home audio or is it apples and oranges?"

Don't equate hi fidelity tubes with guitar audio. I play guitar also and my amp arsenal includes an Alessandro Italian Greyhound amp for jazz guitar. Even though it's a "clean" amp, it's distorting when I play guitar. You don't want that in hi fi.

With your large room you'll need to choose an efficient speaker to get the volumes you need. I'm kind of a high-watt guy, chosing solid state for hi fidelity amplification and my speaker choice reflects that (Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand). Someone else will have to suggest speakers that work well with something like a 50-watt, or less, tube amp. (Maybe Emerald Physics??)

03-21-08: Silver911 also said:
"Dave - Budget is $10-12k"

You can put together an excellent system with that budget. Here's how I'd allocate the money:
Speakers $2k to $4k
Integrated Amplifier $1k to $3K
Digital Front end $200 to $500
Turntable/cartridge/phono preamp $3500
Interconnects and cables $1000

Notice that I gave you lots of wiggle room. Find the speakers first (focusing on efficiency and sound) then the rest of the budget will kind of line up.

While you're at it, listen to SS driving less efficient speakers. If you like full bass with impact and control, combined with smooth mids and crystal highs, this is the way I went.

I'm not anti tube. My headphone amp is a single-ended, class A, Woo Audio WA6. That's a perfect application for tubes, since headphones need only tiny power. Also, my phono pre-amp is tube (Pro-ject Tube Box SE). My speakers need high power and a high damping factor, hence I've gone with a SS Conrad Johnson CA200 control amp.

Happy hunting buddy. Hopefully you've got a great dealer or two to help you hear what's possible.

Dave

I listened to the DALI Helicon 400 Mk.2 yesterday. DALI makes fantastic speakers. If the Mentors behave like the Helicons, then you'll need solid state with a high damping factor. It's more than watts. Some speakers need an amp that takes hold of the drivers and controls them. If the bass was a little wooly, it's because the AR wasn't conrtolling the driver. Rowland, Bryston, Conrad Johnson and several others have high damping factors. Most tube amps do not.

You can mix a tube preamp with a SS amp, but, like I said earlier, don't get too hung up on SS vs. valves.

If you really like the Maggies, then the issues that you heard can probably be fixed with a different amp.

One wild card when listening in stores is that the speakers are seldom set in their ideal positions. Also, nearby drivers suck up the power of the speakers you listening to. The back wave off the Maggies cancels the energy of the front wave, prompting you to keep turning them up. They can be set up to minimize the cancellation, but I'm afraid that you probably heard a set with both the wrong set and the wrong amplification. The fact that you heard the potential would say not to give up on them.

What did you think of the DALIs? They DEMAND a good setup and high damping factor, but they're incredible when everything is right.

What part of the world are you in? Maybe someone can suggest a particularly insightful dealer for you. Only one out of five seem to know their *ss from a hole in the ground, unfortunately. I highly recommend good dealers, but the others do more damage than good, IMHO.

Dave

The bass on the DALIs is night and day, depending on the damping factor. See if anyone carries Jeff Rowland research electronics so you can hear how good they can sound, then see if the dealer has a less expensive option.

Dave

Thanks for the nice links Rodman.

Can you name some "affordable" amps with high damping factors? I'm thinking Bryston is one relatively affordable amp.

Dave