What wire to use instead of Romex

@roccity said

My condo has a subpanel in the kitchen with individual breakers for the different circuits in my home. The two panels in the garage (the Square-D panels with one sitting above the other) are my main panel.

OK.

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If you look closely, you’ll see a 100-amp tandem breaker in the top panel labeled "Condo." This feeds the subpanel in my kitchen.

Edit:  " tandem " to 2 pole breaker ( 2 pole 100A,  240V breaker) .

I can’t make out what’s written on the labels. It looks like there are a few 2 pole 240V breakers in the two panels. Air conditioning?  Water Heater? Electric car charger? Other?.

So, The angled GF, flexible metal conduit, out the top of the panel is a 100A feeder that feeds the sub panel in the kitchen. 

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The electric meters are on the exterior of the wall to which the panels are mounted.

OK.

Just curious, is there a 2 pole 100A, 240V main breaker outdoors fed from the load side of the electric meter socket? Just curious...

Yes, I too would feed the new dedicated 120V 20A branch circuit from the main panel in the garage. (But I will ask is the sub panel in the kitchen closer to where you want to install the branch circuit wall outlet? How much closer?)

Will the HOA require you, actually the electrical contractor/electrician, to pull a electrical permit? If yes I wonder if the electrician will be required to install a 20A AFCI breaker in the electrical panel. Hard to tell from the photo but it looks to me like the two panels are Square D QO. I believe a 1 pole 20A AFCI breaker will work, fit, if required. 

FWIW, From what I have read your area in NY State is still working under the 2020 NEC code.  

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Downside? Lightning protection. Are lightning storms common in the City you live in? Because of the distance from the branch wall outlet, there in the length of the branch circuit wiring from the main electrical service equipment may be less than 30ft, a plug-in Type 3 point of use SPD (Surge Protection Device) is not recommended (allowed), by NEC, UL, NEMA, therefore the Manufacturer of the Type 3 SPD. 

IF your area is subject to frequent lightning storms I would suggest you have the electrician install a Type 2 SPD at the main panel in the garage. Top of the line residential  Siemens or Eaton Type 2 SPDs get very good customer reviews.

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I really would like to know if there is a 2 pole main disconnect breaker outdoors on the load side of the electric meter socket for your electrical service. If yes that is where the electrical service is connected to Mother Earth.

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As for this:

@rwwear said:

Can’t it be run inside the wall? Any competent electrician should be able to

@roccity  response:

I suppose it could, but if I understand what you’re asking, that would entail having to cut into the drywall every 16 inches and drill holes through the studs. Running it across the ceiling or walls is simpler and cheaper, if not more aesthetically pleasing.

@roccity 

Hopefully the electrician you hire will be experienced in what he does. Layout, layout, layout... Hopefully he practices the 6 Ps. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Production. His attitude should be he can do anything... If you have the money, he has the time.

Question, is there a Condo above yours? Or maybe an attic space? 

FWIW, I don’t think you are going to like the looks of MC cable surfaced mounted on your wall(s) and ceiling. IF you are married you best run the idea past your wife first...

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@jea48 

Edit:  " tandem " to 2 pole breaker ( 2 pole 100A,  240V breaker) .

I stand corrected. My electrical knowledge is limited (but I give myself credit for at least not referring to the outlet as "The Holes" like the one shady "electrician" George Costanza hired ).

I can’t make out what’s written on the labels. It looks like there are a few 2 pole 240V breakers in the two panels. Air conditioning?  Water Heater? Electric car charger? Other?

There’s a main breaker for the power coming into the panel, one for power going to the main unit, one for a 120v outlet in the garage, one for A/C and one for the 240v EV charger (NEMA 4-50) outlet.

So, The angled GF, flexible metal conduit, out the top of the panel is a 100A feeder that feeds the sub panel in the kitchen. 

That is correct.

Just curious, is there a 2 pole 100A, 240V main breaker outdoors fed from the load side of the electric meter socket?

I believe that’s the one that I have labeled "Main" on the left side of the top panel. Outdoors, there’s just the meter.

But I will ask is the sub panel in the kitchen closer to where you want to install the branch circuit wall outlet? How much closer?

It’s definitely a much shorter run from the proposed outlet to the garage.

Will the HOA require you, actually the electrical contractor/electrician, to pull a electrical permit? If yes I wonder if the electrician will be required to install a 20A AFCI breaker in the electrical panel. Hard to tell from the photo but it looks to me like the two panels are Square D QO. I believe a 1 pole 20A AFCI breaker will work, fit, if required.

A permit is not needed. I actually spoke with the board president about my plans, and he gave me a verbal go-ahead to do the work without a variance from the HOA.  An AFCI breaker would only be needed if the outlet were to be installed in the garage.  When I had the outlet installed for my EV charger, I was told by code enforcement that if I had hardwired the charger, a standard breaker would have been acceptable.  The idea being that other devices could potentially be plugged into the outlet and then said devices might be left outdoors and exposed to the elements, creating a risk and necessitating the additional protection.

Are lightning storms common in the City you live in?

We get a few good storms a year. All electrical in my neighborhood is underground. I’m guessing that reduces the risk, though I’m sure it doesn’t entirely eliminate it.

IF your area is subject to frequent lightning storms I would suggest you have the electrician install a Type 2 SPD at the main panel in the garage. Top of the line residential  Siemens or Eaton Type 2 SPDs get very good customer reviews.

I just looked up Type 2 SPD’s on Amazon. They’re not tiny.  I don’t know if there’d be space in the panel for that as well as the breaker. I admit that I don’t even know how it would connect. I should probably open the panel and take a photo.

@jea48 

Thank you for your interest, I’m using 4 Single pole breakers with nicely separated independent 12 gauge wires, there is no need or code to use breaker ties, I want them independent. I’ve a 100 amp panel servicing little else, the audio ends at 2 hospital grade outlet boxes (tabs broken code legal). Suggesting this akin to 10  foot Power cables is well… Ridiculous. And finally Decouple Digital from analogue Through your AC wiring and fuse panel ? Are you suggesting home buyers Should revamp the supplied electrical circuit so as to use their audio systems ? That’s a hard cell and certainly on the placebo side of things in my opinion. Thankfully I have clean power there is zero noise. What I do and have done is certified electrician and code approved. My son is a fibre optic engineer, I’m licensed, audiophile fussy and have help. I do believe in diminishing returns and hate snake oil of any kind. I did this to have three of my high-powered boat anchor amps separated should a problem arise. Smaller equipment is independent. 

Cheers 

@1971gto455ho said:

@jea48

Thank you for your interest, I’m using 4 Single pole breakers with nicely separated independent 12 gauge wires, there is no need or code to use breaker ties, I want them independent. I’ve a 100 amp panel servicing little else, the audio ends at 2 hospital grade outlet boxes (tabs broken code legal).

In response to my post on 08-09-2025 at 10:33am 

Per NEC code when the two receptacles of the duplex receptacle are split and are fed from separate circuit breakers, both outlets shall be de-energized by a single handle action for electrical safety. Single action, use of a 2 pole circuit breaker or two single pole breakers using an approved, Listed, breaker tie.

2020 NEC

Quote:

210.7 Multiple Branch Circuits. "Where two or more branch circuits supply devices or equipment on the same yoke or mounting strap, a means to simultaneously disconnect the ungrounded supply conductors shall be provided at the point at which the branch circuits originate."

end of quote.

Like I said in my post, it’s an electrical safety thing. 

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Best regards,

Jim

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